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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#401

Post by coldpie »

skylanh wrote: post #371
morelisp wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we know it’s not zero. Several major contributors have cited it specifically as reasons they have quit or backed off.

Do you mind sending me in the right direction for more info? I was around for the infancy of Linux (I remember a friend was running ~2.1.98 because it came out before Win 98 or something like that, even though it was occasionally unstable for them), and then went in another direction, and have recently gotten back in.

Sage (previously Sarah) Sharp is the most public one for the Linux project specifically. You could probably find more by starting your search there (and enjoy wading through all the invective aimed their way 'cause oh boy was there a lot).

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#402

Post by bbatha »

opheliate wrote: post #393

Two new moderators have already been added to replace those who left on a temporary basis: [0], [1] 0: https://github.com/rust-lang/team/commit/7185102aa6261d0181f... 1: https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/moderation

That pr is less ominous than you're making it sound. These are temporary moderators who were on a a different rust moderation team -- https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/672

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#403

Post by pc86 »

35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #155
bkirkby wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's very similar to working in a corporation and seeing someone get fired. the company is bound by legal concerns to not reveal why the person was fired, which leaves everyone else wondering if the person had done something fireable or if the company was playing politics with power. i've heard netflix does things a bit differently. when people are asked to leave, their manager sends an email out to everyone explaini…

> the company is bound by legal concerns to not reveal why the person was fired I think this is a fairly common misconception. While you might sign an anti disparagement agreement when you were hired, those tend to be one-way and designed to protect the company. And the bar to prove a defamation case is extremely high . AIUI, most employers simply do not disclose details on firings as a matter of policy, not law.

It's not a legal requirement, yes, but any competent HR person or attorney will tell you publicly telling everyone in a company or on a team why someone was fired is a huge liability and will almost certainly result in a lawsuit after it happens a couple times.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#404

Post by ziml77 »

cpach wrote: post #24
lifeisgood99 wrote: post #7

Sorry what's the context?

No idea – At this point it seems like the context isn’t widely known outside of close circles.

I hate all the drama that gets spread around the internet with zero or limited context. Everyone gets mad and the extrapolation and speculation on what's going on starts to spread as fact.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#405

Post by Gwarzo »

ivraatiems wrote: post #316
dolni wrote: post #228

I don't believe proper free software projects require significant moderation of behavior between individuals. If someone says something that rises to the level of a crime, report it to your local authorities. Otherwise, if a person is generally toxic enough, they will be worked around. Note that expelling a person from a project for being a jerk in one or more instances may do more harm than good. What is the value o…

> You can't have a complex technical project that is successful without some minimum level of competency. For better or worse, competency often makes people a little rougher around the edges. This is just nonsense. Plenty of intelligent and capable people are perfectly friendly and non-toxic. Your philosophy demonstrably doesn't work. Its failures are so obvious that even Linus Torvalds, who people always seem to bri…

"Toxic people aren't worth the effort to keep them in, no matter how good their skilled contributions are. There can and should be a way to remove them."

This is your utopian ideal - it is NOT indicative of the real world. Sometimes, there are horribly toxic people who are so competent and requisite to a project that their removal would cause immediate and irrecoverable failure.

You made your statement as matter of fact - it is absolutely wrong. There may be times, perhaps even a majority of times that you can simply remove a toxic person - but to state it as the hard rule without exceptions is wrong.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#406

Post by phendrenad2 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #183
loeg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public shaming by respected community members is probably somewhat effective. However, they chose not to do that here. Without knowing more, I have to trust their judgment. But I recognize that it’s unsatisfying.

Is there any possibility they are under formal legal contract ie. NDA? Don't know how formal the Rust organization is setup/whether that would be a part in the process of joining the moderation team.

An NDA for an open-source project? I sincerely hope no one tried that, but if they did, that's a radical idea and the effects must be studied (never let someone doing something weird go to waste, science can learn from it!)

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#407

Post by bigwavedave »

zozbot234 wrote: post #220
Jensson wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The core team refused to kick out a misandrist member" would lead to a lot of drama if they said it publicly. If that is why they are quitting then it makes sense that they refused to say anything about it.

It's not like she would be the first or the only team member with rather controversial political views. As long as these views don't meaningfully impact her work on Rust, why shouldn't she be on the team? Why can't we just learn to be more tolerant of dissenting views?

> It's not like she would be the first or the only team member with rather controversial political views. As long as these views don't meaningfully impact her work on Rust, why shouldn't she be on the team? Why can't we just learn to be more tolerant of dissenting views?

The link goes into detail about her effect on wasm-pack, the official Rust wasm project. Her personal views and behavior at npm aside, this alone should be enough to remove her from being part of Rust in any official capacity. I guess being in a relationship with Steve Klabnik has its benefits.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#408

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

People in open source don't seem to understand that major open source communities such as those for Rust are work environments, and in work environments you should act professionally. Don't discuss religion or politics. Don't insult. Respect those who you disagree with.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#409

Post by opheliate »

bbatha wrote: post #402
opheliate wrote: post #393

Two new moderators have already been added to replace those who left on a temporary basis: [0], [1] 0: https://github.com/rust-lang/team/commit/7185102aa6261d0181f... 1: https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/moderation

That pr is less ominous than you're making it sound. These are temporary moderators who were on a a different rust moderation team -- https://github.com/rust-lang/team/pull/672

Thanks, didn't see that, will edit my post. Ominous tone wasn't intentional, was just surprised to see such a quick change.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#410

Post by jamincan »

kristoff_it wrote: post #236
nikivi wrote: post #3

I wonder if it's related to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28513130

How does the opinion expressed in that tweet map to a violation of the CoC? I personally don't see it, but I'm asking genuinely.

I don't think it does; it's just one of the recent bits of drama within the Rust Team that has leaked out to the public, so people naturally wonder if they are connected somehow. At this point in time, everything in here is just idle speculation at best.
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