Seems like a new mod team has already been found?
https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/moderation
Rust Moderation Team Resigns
391–400 of 912 posts
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#392Let me guess, they want to govern Rust via whatever DAO-of-the-day unproven crypto tech instead.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#393Two new moderators have already been added to replace those who left on a temporary basis: [0], [1]
0: https://github.com/rust-lang/team/commit/7185102aa6261d0181f...
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#394Absent some form of democracy, what does it mean for a leadership to be "accountable"? Power extends from whoever has the authority to hold others to account. So this just reads like a power-grab from the moderation team. What would it mean for them to have the power to hold the core team to account? That they could sack people from it? The goals of the project are set by the core team; not by a moderation team enfor…
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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you suggesting that the substance of the accusation is as complex and cannot be explained without years of preparation?
I'm simply refuting the statement that just because something is public it is aimed at everyone. That statement is clearly wrong.
Well, in the context of this discussion I interpret 'written for everyone' as 'author was aware that everyone can read this and still wrote what he wrote'.
An author of a paper on string theory published on arxive is aware that everyone can read it and almost no one will understand that except for a few from the intended audience. He or she is fine with that and so does everyone else.
The authors of the resignation letter are similarly aware of the publicity, but decided to go ahead with their vague and unsubstantiated accusations and their appeal not to believe if the accused party says anything. They are aware of the effect and are fine with that. Some people are not.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is more important to produce great works than it is to adhere to the behavioral strictures of internet activists. 100 years from now, people will recognize the name "Linux Torvalds". Who will remember the tone police? Linux is a major accomplishment and a boon for all humanity. All I see the hall monitors accomplishing is the production of drama.
These "internet activists" you spend so much effort maligning are simply reminding you that there is a human being on the other side of that screen. I'm not inside the Linux developers' world, but from the outside it seems like a much healthier, more vibrant place since Linus realized that he works with human beings.
> These "internet activists" you spend so much effort maligning are simply reminding you that there is a human being on the other side of that screen.
Actually, primarily they're reminding me that there's a human being on the other side of the screen watching everything I do in case I fuck up. How this is supposed to make anyone want to participate is a mystery to me.
edit: The weird thing to me is that these people are so hyper-vigilant to the damage bad behavior can do, and utterly blind to the idea that their own behavior can also be damaging. If I ever read a sentence like "we know that overmoderation and tone-policing can create toxic communities, and we're watching out for that" from a moderation team, I will know that this is a community that I can trust to be administered in an even-handed and fair manner. So far I have seen this once.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has a much worse effect though. Instead of damaging a single member they are now damaging the whole core team by leaving it unspecific, and they are damaging Rust as well.
Whether it’s better or worse is unknowable.
Yes, because if you accuse a group when you should be accusing an individual you are doing all of the people in the group a disservice. Then you should just say nothing. 'wie A zegt moet ook B zeggen'. If there are major upsides to this approach then I'm not aware of them, do tell.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe it will help to explicate what rubs me the wrong way about "corporate HR". The facade of process masking Machiavellian reality is what rubs me the wrong way. I'm always astounded by folks who don't understand that companies are feudal kingdoms and that all the stuff about processes and protecting people who are innocent/do the right thing is just hot air. And I've never been on the wrong side of HR, so this isn…
The problem is that people want the facade. I generally expect managers to present themselves as first among equals, even though I understand in extremis that's not true, and I wouldn't work in an organization where they do a bad job at pretending. It's my understanding that my mindset is pretty common, although I have to admit that I'm not sure because this isn't the kind of thing I'm comfortable polling my coworker…
My post is about HR processes, not management relationships. And what I said about the ultimate authority was about ownership, not management.
Managers are also just laborers. As laborers, they also need to know that "getting along with people" is most important.
> I generally expect managers to present themselves as first among equals, even though I understand in extremis that's not true, and I wouldn't work in an organization where they do a bad job at pretending.
If you're a senior engineer making anything less than 500k or so, your first-line and even second-line managers do have a complicated power relationship with you.
I.e., another way of saying what you said here is that your labor is in high enough demand that your mangers have to treat you with a certain amount of respect in day-to-day interactions.
A manager who doesn't show enough politeness/deference will have high turn-over, and in most situations that spells problems. Again, because they aren't capital owners. They are laborers.
Like I said, "getting along with people" is probably the most important skill. Finding yourself in an HR process means you failed at "getting along with people". The rest is noise. Don't rely on HR. Get along with people.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, in round one, they've resigned. Games are played over multiple rounds. We're yet to see how it plays out. Though I don't really expect those individuals to comeback, this may well just be a move to subsume the projects "technical goals" (ie., those of the core team) under the "ethical goals" of the moderation team. As a technical project, to me, this isnt that sensible. > leadership to be accountable means that…
> Games are played over multiple rounds. That may be so, but these people are no longer playing the game.
They're not dead.
Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns
#400I mean, is it any surprise? When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they probably recruited a bunch of SJWs who went around looking to be offended, then were told where to go (I mean, they're non-technical members of a technical project) and now they're acting offended...
As someone mentioned in another comment, BurntSushi is an amazing engineer who has contributed immensely to the ecosystem, on top of being a moderator. Don't turn this into some dumb "non-technical people stirring up trouble".