Rust Moderation Team Resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#341

Post by badRNG » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #320

DrBenCarson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Providing legal representation to those who may have been denied a fair trial This is partisan?

Obviously I was talking about "Black Lives Matter".

Generally speaking, organizations providing statements in favor of human rights have been in fairly safe territory. Historically, businesses supporting desegregation, the Civil Rights Act, LGBTQ inclusivity, or other human rights issues have been either unharmed or benefitted from the stance, even if there's no material contribution to the cause, and even if the fight for human rights is partisan (it almost always is.)

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#342

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

loeg wrote: post #142

babyblueblanket wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be that they cannot censure the offending member in any capacity, due to their core team member status. In that case, resignation is the only thing they have to effectively rebuke behavior.

Public shaming by respected community members is probably somewhat effective. However, they chose not to do that here. Without knowing more, I have to trust their judgment. But I recognize that it’s unsatisfying.

This has a much worse effect though. Instead of damaging a single member they are now damaging the whole core team by leaving it unspecific, and they are damaging Rust as well.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#343

Post by Aeolun » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

dogleash wrote: post #146

pjc50 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite: it's a "we refuse to drag this drama out into the public sphere" statement.

That's a naïve reading. They are dragging more into the public sphere than necessary to raise their grievances. They could have kept the statement confined to disagreement with the government structure. Leave it ambiguous between whether it was a theoretical weakness in the structure, or a practical one where they already experienced the inability to censure. People like goss. Wagging your eyebrows to imply something…

> They could have kept the statement confined to disagreement with the government structure. Leave it ambiguous between whether it was a theoretical weakness in the structure, or a practical one.

Nobody resigns over a theoretical flaw in the governance structure. It’s only when it starts becoming a problem that people do so.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#344

Post by donatj » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #312

donatj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not going to publicly state your grievances, so publicly posting your resignation seems at best political and at worst slanderous. Either let the public in on the situation or don’t. Don’t badmouth someone and then refuse to explain why.

They explained why: accountability and structure. Do you need specific instances, date and timestamped?

Yes. If you're going to accuse someone of something, have details.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#345

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

IceWreck wrote: post #191

Is this about Amazon employing most of the core team and having too much influence on the language ? I remember someone else high up in the Rust project leaving due to those reasons last month.

[deleted]

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#346

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #183

loeg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public shaming by respected community members is probably somewhat effective. However, they chose not to do that here. Without knowing more, I have to trust their judgment. But I recognize that it’s unsatisfying.

Is there any possibility they are under formal legal contract ie. NDA? Don't know how formal the Rust organization is setup/whether that would be a part in the process of joining the moderation team.

A moderation team under NDA might as well not exist. Moderators should always be free to speak their minds.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#347

Post by mmacvicarprett » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #86

Absent some form of democracy, what does it mean for a leadership to be "accountable"? Power extends from whoever has the authority to hold others to account. So this just reads like a power-grab from the moderation team. What would it mean for them to have the power to hold the core team to account? That they could sack people from it? The goals of the project are set by the core team; not by a moderation team enfor…

It means the leadership is willing to accept responsibility, not just accepting negative feedback but also working with others to correct the behaviors. In this case I would say it would involve admitting a violation happened and to say what will be done differently in the future.

I can see how this can be extremely complicated, depending on the type of CoC violation people tend to be extremists, forget about being constructive (to assume good intentions) and immediately grab the pitchforks.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#348

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

scandox wrote: post #16

> In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. Isn't that a kind of scorched earth statement? I read it as "we will be discreet and…

[deleted]

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#349

Post by tharne » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

anandrew wrote: post #277

tinco wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's a bit of a tautology, the fact that they're resigning already clearly communicates there's an irreconcilable difference between the mod team and the core team. If the core team comes with an explanation that would make light of the situation surely the new mod team would be skeptical. That said, there is still a bit of a game left to be played. The mod team just played their trump card, by instantly makin…

> but the person(s) who caused offence probably have no bad intentions I'd give the mod team the benefit of the doubt that the offense they've all resigned over is not so mild that it could be committed unintentionally.

> I'd give the mod team the benefit of the doubt that the offense they've all resigned over is not so mild that it could be committed unintentionally.

I don't think that's necessarily a safe assumption, particularly in today's cultural and political environment.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#350

Post by ziddoap » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #344

ziddoap wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explained why: accountability and structure. Do you need specific instances, date and timestamped?

Yes. If you're going to accuse someone of something, have details.

It's a resignation, not a prosecution.

Edit:

If it helps, imagine a time you quit your job.

Did you provide a datestamped list of incidents that lead to your decision to quit?

Or were you, by chance, slightly more vague and provide something along the lines of: "The culture/fit/hours/goals/growth do not align with mine so I am resigning."?