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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#131

Post by marcus_cemes »

I'm glad that they're trying to make their voices heard, but I hope this doesn't have any long lasting effects on the Rust community/ecosystem as a whole. We all (mostly) want to see Rust succeed, but we're struggling on our way there.

There are a lot of companies on the edge about investing into Rust in my opinion, there are a lot of reasons for, but it also generally just feels so unstable and easy to rock.

Being at the centre of controversies, such as the one with actix-web, gives it a bad reputation even outside Rust circles.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#132

Post by mjburgess »

asoneth wrote: post #101

Is there any good way to craft a message like this? If they outlined specific issues then it would invariably devolve into armchair quarterbacking of those issues rather than the the underlying question of what kinds of checks-and-balances should exist for the Core Team -- gossip, accusations, and political discussions are a lot more fun than debating governance structures. On the other hand, if no specific issues ar…

They should provide a timeline against which their actions will be explained.

A resignation is a public action, and as this team knows very well, such actions need to be held to account.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#133

Post by couchand »

znpy wrote: post #119
tinco wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, an immature drama would have people slinging feces. This is a highly mature drama where the arguments are dry, generic and adhere to a strict code of values. No fingers were pointed, and the offended party is taking the high road by resigning. It's not often that people behave in a mature fashion, so I fully understand you did not recognise it for what it is.

You call it mature but an outsider would have no idea about what's happening. I have no way of forming an idea whether it's utter bs or if there is something actually going wrong.

Perhaps this message was not written for you?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#135

Post by api »

q1w2 wrote: post #92

Is there any tech consequence to this immature drama? I'm confused as to whether I should care or not. If there are consequences on the tech, people need to spell that out. Right now this all seems like some middle-school playground emotional drama. I'm too old to care about that.

Knowing how mature it is seems to require that we know what the issues were, since there are issues and then there is dumb drama.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#136

Post by deltaonesix »

znpy wrote: post #119
tinco wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, an immature drama would have people slinging feces. This is a highly mature drama where the arguments are dry, generic and adhere to a strict code of values. No fingers were pointed, and the offended party is taking the high road by resigning. It's not often that people behave in a mature fashion, so I fully understand you did not recognise it for what it is.

You call it mature but an outsider would have no idea about what's happening. I have no way of forming an idea whether it's utter bs or if there is something actually going wrong.

This is true. Often people form opinions with limited information. We aren't sure what's true or what isn't true so without this information we should not logically even form an opinion.

The decision is "mature" if and only if what the moderation team claims to have occurred actually occurred, and we don't know the full details behind this.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#137

Post by tapirl »

the_duke wrote: post #59

I have used Rust for years, but I never bothered with looking into the governance structure. How are team members selected? Who has authority to kick someone off a team? How are team leads selected? Who can remove team leads? Is it the core team? If so, who picks the core team? I can't find anything online, except this very bare-bones WIP stub. [1] This seems to be a glaring and surprising oversight. Especially at th…

kick off? Is this necessary for an open source non-profit project?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#138

Post by bccdee »

u320 wrote: post #67
pjc50 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the opposite: it's a "we refuse to drag this drama out into the public sphere" statement.

It is very much in the public sphere now though.

The fact that the moderation team didn't have the power to moderate the core team is public, as it needs to be if that is going to change. The actual moderation issues that arose from that have remained private, which is probably for the best, because the entire point of moderation is to not try people in the court of public opinion.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#139

Post by lvass »

Not that this specifically will cause any consequence for the language, but it's terrible how entirely possible some similar drama can affect it. This is a complex, unspecified language with a single decent implementation.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#140

Post by mbesto »

quotemstr wrote: post #89
ferdowsi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

Counterexample: Linux, GCC, Python, and practically the entire free software ecosystem from before the current crazy for hall-monitory-y supervision from above. It is simply demonstrably, factually, clearly not true that a growing community needs the kind of structures that Rust imposed on itself. It really makes me sad that a certain kind of person these days sees some kind of censorious overlord as essential for th…

Linux and Python (not aware of GCC) effectively have BDFLs that can just nix anything (hence the "dictator" in BDFL). So these aren't just really comparable.
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