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Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

euobserver.com

31–40 of 59 posts

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> loophole with those minimum transfer times I have to ask why it’s a loophole. OP consumed just as much train with long stops as someone that travelled directly. It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. I get it that suppliers like to charge more for more convenience but really, the cost of provision is the same (or less!).

> It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. What’s odd? Supply and demand. More people want direct flights so they cost more money.

No, that's odd. Supply is not much restricted per route.

There's simply a pricing model where a more convenient or luxurious travel intiniary is more expensive. Only temporary popularity shifts could do a supply/demand price run, otherwise larger airplanes generally lower costs per passenger, and running more flights on the same line is likely a reduced effort and risk than having more lines.

Low-performance or high-variance lines could be higher priced due to having to pay for empty seats (on the same line of flights) but I believe this is not usual. The remaining passengers would be fewer.

I should think air travel would greatly improve with better customer-risk-treatment (e.g. no security - more like busses) and a 'ticketing model' that's as complicated as buying train tickets. Perhaps then we will see some more imaginative forms of air travel.

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#32
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on your train operator. Deutsche Bahn won't even tell you prices to most international destinations (especially those DB doesn't itself service) and asks you to come in in person to one of the few remaining ticket sales booths OR call a hotline. They happily let you select a train ride from Madrid to Wladivostok, including all intermediary stations ... but you can't buy the ticket. Same for Berlin to Rom…

Yes that's why I say, buy it on the operator of where you're leaving from. Doesn't make much sense trying to buy at a 3rd party. (for DB specifically it seems that international-bahn.de can determine the price for some trips)

The problem with international-bahn.de is that it might sell you what is technically several independent tickets instead of a single through-ticket, which can subsequently be problematic in case of a missed connection.

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#33
post #28
post #3

Apparently there is little current economic incentive (or regulatory push) to streamline the process and take on airlines in cross-border travel: Railway companies are national in nature and by history. The share of cross-border travelling is small; the income mainly comes from national rail. - Obviously if they streamlined the process to take on airlines their revenue would increase. But perhaps the cost of streamli…

Rail services in European countries are not covering their costs in any country, as far as I know. Speaking of Switzerland (which is notably at the extreme end in terms of costs) public rail services are run a lot like infrastructure projects / economic booster packages by the government. Whether or not ticket prices or capacities are increased is more down to politics and economic perception than actual demand. So i…

The fact that a lot of the money for passenger rail in europe is coming in from regional bodies for running regional trains also means that fast intercity trains don't get priority when there is congestion, and that the planners kind of assume that people who miss their connection can just take the next one which is true for regional trains but not always cross continental express routes.

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#34
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They even mention Trainline in the article, which spits me a next-day ticket from for both those trips in seconds. They hand wave it away by saying the are "unknown to consumers".

Those services are great. I used Eurail (a similar one). Bought X train trips for a flat rate, all I had to do was write in my To and From cities on the travel log. Reading this article, I took that for granted with how simple it was.

Eurail is only for non-European residents, tough. Europeans have to use Interrail, which in turn doesn't cover journeys in your home country (except two single trips if you buy the more expensive all-of-Europe Global pass).

If you want to do a holiday-by-train (and especially if you also plan on doing a few additional journeys while abroad, like a few day trips or staying a few days in one place, then moving on to somewhere different etc.) it can still be worth it, but for a simple back-and-forth journey this means that Interrail passes still aren't necessarily a suitable replacement for true through-ticketing.

(Also some countries require mandatory reservations for long-distance trains which in turn aren't necessarily included in the price of an Eurail/Interrail pass)

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#35
post #27

Cross-country used to be very convenient before kerosene production increased, got distributed and aeroplanes range increased so that taxation of the fuel became impossible. You could book one nighttrain ticket from Stockholm to Paris straight and that had been possible since 1930 until ~1970! Now when the Swedish governement tries to revive the service they say they encounter resistance from the Germans who apparent…

Oy, swedish link behind paywall...

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#36
post #5

Really? > When travelling from Copenhagen to Warsaw or Lisbon to Marseille People pick the train because those trips are far enough to make the train a hassle But I can enter the origin train company sites (or the operator) and buy a ticket to another country "pretty easily" (for the last couple of times I did this). In fact buying online was easy enough.

They even mention Trainline in the article, which spits me a next-day ticket from for both those trips in seconds. They hand wave it away by saying the are "unknown to consumers".

> They hand wave it away by saying the are "unknown to consumers".

There's also the fact (also mentioned in the article) that buying split tickets (which is what those kind of agencies will sell you if the respective operators don't offer through-tickets) won't give you the full protection of the passengers rights in case of delays, missed connections, etc.

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#37
post #35
post #27

Cross-country used to be very convenient before kerosene production increased, got distributed and aeroplanes range increased so that taxation of the fuel became impossible. You could book one nighttrain ticket from Stockholm to Paris straight and that had been possible since 1930 until ~1970! Now when the Swedish governement tries to revive the service they say they encounter resistance from the Germans who apparent…

Oy, swedish link behind paywall...

View source, then remove hidden tag... works sometimes... I translated the only content worth reading.

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#38
Slightly related : I have discovered an hour ago this interactive map of Europe which lets you know, given your starting train station, all the destinations you can reach directly without changing trains.

https://direkt.bahn.guru/

(provided by Deutsche Bahn but not limited to their own trains)

Re: Why are cross-country train tickets in EU still so complex?

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a train loving Dutchman the German bahn.de website is my go-to destination for any travelling from the Netherlands to Germany. It's just so much more convenient than the Dutch NS website. Fun loophole with those minimum transfer times, was it patched since? It's not something I would use; I don't mind paying a fair price for what is a form of transport much more sustainable than air travel, although I do like to f…

> loophole with those minimum transfer times I have to ask why it’s a loophole. OP consumed just as much train with long stops as someone that travelled directly. It’s odd, in aviation, you’ll pay less with longer layovers and more for direct, even though direct is the least miles in the air. I get it that suppliers like to charge more for more convenience but really, the cost of provision is the same (or less!).

Airlines actually make it kinda difficult to get longer layovers, and a lot of them have gotten rid of open jaw itineraries. I think the reason that some indirect flights are cheaper is that you're picking up excess capacity on underutilized flights (which, like you said, let's them charge a premium when direct flight seats are scarce)
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