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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#61

Post by [deleted] »

capableweb wrote: post #23
willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly say they are not saying: > In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. With the earlier bit about the Core Team not…

Which is a pity. I always saw the Rust organization as one that acted in public and with transparency, I guess that's why I expected something more clear instead of a resignation of a full team without any further clarification about why. But, of course up to them what they feel comfortable sharing with the public, if it's something that has to stay private I guess that's the way it will be.

[deleted]

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#63

Post by sambe »

DominikD wrote: post #46
capableweb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a pity. I always saw the Rust organization as one that acted in public and with transparency, I guess that's why I expected something more clear instead of a resignation of a full team without any further clarification about why. But, of course up to them what they feel comfortable sharing with the public, if it's something that has to stay private I guess that's the way it will be.

There are always types of events that are not suitable for public discourse (pretty much any form of harassment or abuse, where victims are still subject to pressure or were yet unable to process what happened falls into this category). I have no insight into what happened but it's not hard for me to imagine what could prompt moderation team to resign w/o disclosing specific instances.

Right. It may also be possible that there is some hope of this action restoring normality. i.e. as a result of this protest, the Core Team become more accountable. At that point, I assume the specific incident(s) may be dealt with according to the Code of Conduct, which may or may not involve transparency. Either way, it could be premature and possibly prejudicial to air those now.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#65

Post by crate_barre »

nvrspyx wrote: post #38
scandox wrote: post #16

> In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. Isn't that a kind of scorched earth statement? I read it as "we will be discreet and…

It's more them saying be skeptical of anything the accused says about the situation, which is common sense in that the "wrongdoer" will more than likely spin the story to save face. Unlike a court of law, they're under no oath. They may make a statement about the situation if the core team decides to release details on the situation, but they don't want to be the first to do so, so they're simply saying be skeptical…

Without knowing details, I can say from experience that those who feel they are the most righteous are often the most wrong. I’ve been on both sides of this.

If this has to be aired publicly, then we need to be able to objectively assess. Otherwise, I’m reading this as ‘we don’t get along with those guys and gals on the core team and vice versa’, which is, fine, it’s just humans not getting along.

Which reminds me, I don’t get along with some team members either. I want to write an email just like this, a veritable ‘fuck off, you stink”. Feels good. Now what?

Move along everyone, we’re all adults after all (right?).

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#66

Post by fijiaarone »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #41
fivelessminutes wrote: post #2

'Core team' as a concept naturally leads to elitism.

Almost anything in the real world that works and is not dysfunctional is built on hierarchies. Where hierarchies are not explicitly spelled out they are implicit and without accountability - "some animals are more equal than others". How to promote on merit and not nepotism or corruption is the hard problem.

Do you want a competence hierarchy or a political hierarchy?

That's the question our society is facing.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#67

Post by u320 »

pjc50 wrote: post #55
scandox wrote: post #16

> In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. Isn't that a kind of scorched earth statement? I read it as "we will be discreet and…

It's the opposite: it's a "we refuse to drag this drama out into the public sphere" statement.

It is very much in the public sphere now though.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#68

Post by stackedinserter »

ferdowsi wrote: post #48
randyrand wrote: post #32

Programming Language authors love to formalize everything , but did Rust really need all of these rules and moderators to begin with?

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

Examples?

EDIT: it's remarkable that there's none, aside of "someone said something"

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#70

Post by fijiaarone »

fijiaarone wrote: post #50

We don't contribute but we want control -- if we can't have it, we will libel the project. Almost every open source project is being overtaken by social justice warrior leeches. Even Linus Torvalds was kicked out of Linux. I'm surprised that the Rust community pushed back.

4 Downvotes in 1 minute -- exhibit A
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