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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#21

Post by OJFord »

alexarnesen wrote: post #6
nikivi wrote: post #3

I wonder if it's related to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28513130

The author of that piece is on the core team. https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/core

That confused me at first, so just to elaborate for anyone else - the moderation team is stepping down, having grievances including an unaccountable core team. Steve Klabnik is on the latter, not the former, so not resigning.

So unless GP is suggesting that the moderation team felt SK's post airing grievances with Amazon was against CoC/whatever standards they expected of him, not related.

(Edit: oh, perhaps tangentially related after all. See codys' comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29307113)

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#22

Post by simion314 »

capableweb wrote: post #4

Obviously there is a story behind this ("the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves"), but it's not entirely evident from the PR itself what actions led down to this happening. I guess somewhere a Core Team member broke the Code of Conduct but the deed went unpunished? I was expecting some references or links to where this actually happened, but couldn't find anything. Anyone know what ha…

Maybe is better that no single action is emphasized or a single person and focus on the actual problem, the fact that there might be a group that is above the laws/rules and possible solutions.

Edit: I think if some action will be made public then everyone will focus on debating why that action was correct/incorrect , then a lot of mostly politics dirt will be thrown around etc.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#23

Post by capableweb »

willvarfar wrote: post #15
capableweb wrote: post #4

Obviously there is a story behind this ("the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves"), but it's not entirely evident from the PR itself what actions led down to this happening. I guess somewhere a Core Team member broke the Code of Conduct but the deed went unpunished? I was expecting some references or links to where this actually happened, but couldn't find anything. Anyone know what ha…

They explicitly say they are not saying: > In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. With the earlier bit about the Core Team not…

Which is a pity. I always saw the Rust organization as one that acted in public and with transparency, I guess that's why I expected something more clear instead of a resignation of a full team without any further clarification about why.

But, of course up to them what they feel comfortable sharing with the public, if it's something that has to stay private I guess that's the way it will be.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#25

Post by [deleted] »

dboreham wrote: post #10
capableweb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you either have a explicit hierarchy of people working on something, and then the people who are a part of the "top layer" can sometimes start to look down on the ones who belong to the layer below, seeing them as less knowledgeable or not producing useful output. Sometimes that leads to people starting to close down into their current layer, and forms "us-vs-them" groups. Or, you have a implicit hierarchy and…

This is what humans do.

[deleted]

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#26

Post by tonightstoast »

woodruffw wrote: post #19
jebronie wrote: post #13

Is this a dirty trick by the amazon folks to harm the core team?

I don't believe anybody on the moderation team works at Amazon[1]. But I could be wrong. [1]: https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/moderation

BurntSushi works at salesforce and Ilogiq works at Synth. Couldn’t find the third individual’s employer but at least 2 of 3 do not work at Amazon.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#27

Post by capableweb »

scandox wrote: post #16

> In this message, we have avoided airing specific grievances beyond unaccountability. We've chosen to maintain discretion and confidentiality. We recommend that the broader Rust community and the future Mod Team exercise extreme skepticism of any statements by the Core Team (or members thereof) claiming to illuminate the situation. Isn't that a kind of scorched earth statement? I read it as "we will be discreet and…

I read it as they warn people to believe the core team specifically, not the whole Rust organization, as the reason they are leaving is because of the actions from individuals in the core team (or lack of thereof).

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#28

Post by user-the-name »

notreallyserio wrote: post #17
xibalba wrote: post #9

This statement is inscrutably generic. Are there examples of behavior which went unaccounted? Or, what prompted this? Also, is it common for projects to have mod teams? This is new to me.

It looks like they've decided to keep the reasons secret and unaccountable.

"Unaccountable"?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#29

Post by rocqua »

OJFord wrote: post #21
alexarnesen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of that piece is on the core team. https://www.rust-lang.org/governance/teams/core

That confused me at first, so just to elaborate for anyone else - the moderation team is stepping down, having grievances including an unaccountable core team. Steve Klabnik is on the latter, not the former, so not resigning. So unless GP is suggesting that the moderation team felt SK's post airing grievances with Amazon was against CoC/whatever standards they expected of him, not related. (Edit: oh, perhaps tangenti…

I can imagine friction over this piece causing conflict between members of the core team. It could also be that Amazon tried to respond to SK's piece in ways that were against the CoC.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#30

Post by tester34 »

choeger wrote: post #5
fivelessminutes wrote: post #2

'Core team' as a concept naturally leads to elitism.

Does it? I am not familiar with the Rust language development but I read it as "team that takes care of the core (of the language)".

When it comes to naming, then from time to time I tend to look at C# and I got impression that there are:

"Language Design Team"

"Compiler/Roslyn Team(?)"

"CLR Team(?)" yada yada

so more product/role-driven naming schema

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