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The Stroad

strongtowns.org

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Re: The Stroad

#221

Post by refurb »

xmprt wrote: post #135
refurb wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. It's not like your "better horse-carriage" example because the option already exists and people reject it. My colleagues in the Bay Area all lived in SF, then quickly moved to the subrurbs when they got older. Sure, there is no pedestrian/biking utopia in the US, but there are places where you can pretty much get by without a car. And many people don't choose to live there. I also spent some time i…

What were the reasons your friend gave for not wanting to live in SF? The common reasons I see are often that it's too expensive, there's too much crime and homeless people, and it's noisy and full of traffic. All of these are solvable problems. Cost is fixed by building more housing and traffic is solved by making the Bay Area less car centric (public transportation in the Bay Area isn't terrible but it can still be…

Their reason often came down to “raising a family of four in 700 sq ft 2 bed kinda sucks”.

For the same amount of money they could get a 1,100 at ft home, with a yard, lots of families close by and good schools.

You cant “build more housing” if the desirable housing is a single family home with a yard. SF is out of space.

Like I said in my other reply, countries where raising a family in a 2 bed apartment is mostly due to cost - they can’t afford more space. American has plenty of space.

Re: The Stroad

#222

Post by occz »

bluGill wrote: post #198
knorker wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great channel that puts words to just why American cities are so dystopic. It really helps understand exactly what "induced demand" means. If you add another lane, some of the people on the bus will take the car, and thus the new lane is almost immediately full again. If you remove the bus lane, bike lane, sidewalk, same thing. Adding capacity for cars actually makes travelling by car worse . It also gives hop…

Induced demand is nonsense. If people leave the bus to drive it indicates your bus system is providing bad service. If more people drive it indicates that your city isn't filling its purpose as being a place where there are a lot of things to do. Cities need to figure out how to get ahead of induced demand not how use it as an excuse to be a worse city.. sure, this is a hard problem, with many options that make somet…

>Induced demand is nonsense.

It's been shown to be real in studies upon studies - what are you trying to say here?

Re: The Stroad

#223

Post by hef19898 »

bee_rider wrote: post #140
gruez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might make sense for dump trucks because they're bulky and have poor visibility, but what's the increased risk of passing on the right? The only thing I can think of is marginally worse visibility because the right side is slightly further away from the driver's seat. However, I don't think that's enough risk to justify going out of your way to pass on the right. Having to change lanes to pass on the left carrie…

Some cars have a blind spot on their right. Also, the convention is passing on the left, so people are generally less aware of things going on on their right. Of course bad drivers are almost by definition unpredictable, but if some bad driver is going to absent mindedly merge into you, they will probably do it while you are on their right. In particular, distracted people whose texting has been interrupted by their…

I hate it when my GPS on my second phone does this!

On a serious note, the overtake left thing (or right for those strange people driving on the wrong side) is a big reason German Autobahn is as safe as it is. Reckless idiots notwithstanding.

Re: The Stroad

#224

Post by zonotope »

dagw wrote: post #159
kblev wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great channel, have been following it for some time, a few takeaways from there: - It's the cars that make the cities undesirable - I was shocked how the historical center of London, ON was demolished to the ground and replaced with shacks - Kids should be able to walk to school alone in safety - I live in Europe and I was baffled to learn that multi-purpose developments are disallowed in most of North America. This…

I love how I can just jump on a bike here and be at a large supermarket in 5 minutes And even when the supermarket/mall is close by in the US, you still can't necessarily walk/bike there. I was visiting a friend who lived in the Midwest and his house was less than a mile from the mall. I asked him how to walk over there, and he admitted he'd never tried. So I set out to try, and the only way I found was by running ac…

America is _very_ big. Bigger than Europe even. That means that there are lots of different development patterns all across the country. While it is true that most places are car dependent, there are also cities where the majority of people who live there don't even own a car. I lived in Boston/Cambridge Massachusetts for 10 years and New York for 8, and I have never owned a car (or bike). Walking and taking the subway/metro are the most convenient modes of travel in those cities, and you get all the benefits of vibrance that comes with that. For the past 18 years, I've had about 2-3 big grocery stores and too many smaller shops and fruit stands to count within a 10 minute walking radius. The same goes for bars, restaurants, book stores, coffee shops, music/dancing venues, etc. All without even needing to get on the subway.

Re: The Stroad

#225

Post by LeChuck »

bluGill wrote: post #198
knorker wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great channel that puts words to just why American cities are so dystopic. It really helps understand exactly what "induced demand" means. If you add another lane, some of the people on the bus will take the car, and thus the new lane is almost immediately full again. If you remove the bus lane, bike lane, sidewalk, same thing. Adding capacity for cars actually makes travelling by car worse . It also gives hop…

Induced demand is nonsense. If people leave the bus to drive it indicates your bus system is providing bad service. If more people drive it indicates that your city isn't filling its purpose as being a place where there are a lot of things to do. Cities need to figure out how to get ahead of induced demand not how use it as an excuse to be a worse city.. sure, this is a hard problem, with many options that make somet…

I agree with you. I think people are downvoting you because they misunderstand your first sentence. Using the concept of induced demand to justify building fewer roads is bullshit, if you don't figure out why there's so much pent up demand to begin with. The way forward should be making all the alternatives more attractive, so that the demand for cars disappears.

Re: The Stroad

#226

Post by bsanr2 »

fho wrote: post #176
frereubu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centres of most UK towns and cities are now limited to 20mph. Although in practice that means that people drive around 25mph - i.e. just low enough not to be caught for speeding - it does make the streets less threatening for both pedestrians and bikes. The thing that would make it better for cyclists is to line up the speed limit of e-bikes (currently set at a max of 15mph) and the speed limit. Currently the 15m…

Counterpoint: I regularly go 40-50 km/h on my (not e-)bike on a downhill rural road (40 km/h speed limit) and drivers still feel obligated to overtake me.

I tend to overtake cyclists specifically for their safety. I figure that the farther I am from them, the lower a chance of a collision there is. If that holds true, then the only options when encountering one is to slow down and possibly impede other traffic, or speed up, overtake, and move away. This works for single cyclists. Groups would be different, but I've never encountered them.

Re: The Stroad

#227

Post by hef19898 »

wffurr wrote: post #189
sokoloff wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but they’re more common on one travel lane each way streets. When evaluating the danger of such a design, you have to consider the alternatives. You’re probably considering 3/4 head on collisions from drivers misjudging the turn. Those happen, but how many rear-end collisions are avoided?

The center turning lane isn't there to avoid rear end collisions, which are only problematic due to too-high speeds in a commercial area. They are about improving throughput. What makes them dangerous, particularly in the five lane configuration, is the poor visibility for crossing uncontrolled intersections of multiple traffic lanes.

Center turning with five lanes? wow, that's crazy...

Re: The Stroad

#229

Post by Dudeman112 »

itronitron wrote: post #212
frereubu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centres of most UK towns and cities are now limited to 20mph. Although in practice that means that people drive around 25mph - i.e. just low enough not to be caught for speeding - it does make the streets less threatening for both pedestrians and bikes. The thing that would make it better for cyclists is to line up the speed limit of e-bikes (currently set at a max of 15mph) and the speed limit. Currently the 15m…

They should switch to kph from mph so the effective speed limit is lowered to ~15mph while being labeled as 25kph. Drivers will feel like their going '25' so less likely to feel inconvenienced :)

Would only work for the current generation of drivers.

Maybe we could add a few zeroes each few years? So in some decades they'll be driving ultra fast at 25000 meters per hour? ;)

Re: The Stroad

#230

Post by bsanr2 »

paledot wrote: post #203
x3iv130f wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those places tend to be unafordable longterm for anyone making even twice the median salary.

That is ultimately a problem of scarcity. No one is building walkable communities, so the only remaining walkable communities are the "historic" ones that, surprise, everyone wants to live in because the alternative sucks. Elastic demand, inelastic supply.

The channel mentions regularly that this isn't because of a lack of demand, but because of restrictive zoning laws and building codes that forbid it.
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