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More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

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Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#51

Post by spfzero »

tuatoru wrote: post #6
holonomically wrote: post #2

The world is expected to have ~11B people by the year 2100. There are plenty of people even if some countries have declining birth rates. [1] Better immigration policies solve any problems that nations with declining birth rates might have but that requires having politicians that are willing to put aside xenophobic concerns to implement sensible immigration policies. 1: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-g…

1. North America has less of a "problem" than nearly everywhere else, since (overall) it has traditionally tolerated extremely high immigration rates, and potential migrants see it as a desirable destination. Politicians reflect their voters' views. In most countries immigration rates are at least an order of magnitude too low to compensate for low fertility and will stay that way. 2. Most of the projected increase i…

Also not sure why declining population is a problem. The sheer number of human beings on the planet, however, is the root cause of many problems, climate change, habitat loss, water shortages, on and on.

When I imagine less traffic, less air pollution, more clean drinking water, grazing and farmland, per person; I see a better world, not a worse one.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#52

Post by heavyset_go »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33
mercy_dude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Declining birth rate is a symptom, not a disease. Immigration may be a workaround but not a fix. The key reason why young Americans don’t want to have children is because the cost of living including raising a child has been exploding for last 20yrs. Housing, healthcare, insurance, student loans and cost of education- all have gone up exponentially when the actual wages have not gone up. Immigration is a workaround b…

How do you square this with the fact that the birth rate is also low in European countries with reasonable cost of living and robust safety nets. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Maybe people just don’t want kids when they’re educated. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/womens-educational-attain...

Cost of living has been rising across the EU, as well. You can see it most obviously in the international cities.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#53

Post by _carbyau_ »

1270018080 wrote: post #43

I'm not having kids because kids suck and I'm doing my part to prevent climate change. I can look beyond the preprogrammed brain chemistry that tells you having kids was "the best thing that has happened to you in your life" as you lose 10 years off of your life in stress and all of your friends.

On the one hand, you do you. Also, others do what they do. Everyone has their own circumstances.

For me, your "look beyond preprogrammed brain chemistry" comment smacked of elitism. As though people with kids are somehow bound by rules you have transcended. Seems arrogant to assume the reasons others do what they do and boil it down to something as trite as that.

Will I say that my kid is "the best thing in my life" on my deathbed? Maybe. Is my kid worth it to me in a purely selfish personal happiness sense? Right now, I would do it again no question.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#54

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

crateless wrote: post #29
jl2718 wrote: post #23

Anecdotally, the problem is much worse among those that contribute more in taxes than consume in public benefits. This is the real problem. Low-skill high-fertility immigration will not solve it. Child tax credits will not solve it. Welfare programs will not solve it. These problems all exacerbate the problem by growing the population below the net-income line. You may say that these people are more necessary or usef…

I have been recently picturing a dystopia (utopia?) wherein women sell their eggs to some kind of govt. agency which in turn hires women who are willing to carry babies to term. These babies are then raised in child group homes by state employees all the way from infancy. Meanwhile the state pays for their education until they either graduate or until some kind of arbitrary deadline. Thus the problem could become cos…

> hires women who are willing to carry babies to term.

We could probably use pigs as surrogates within the next 10 years if we really wanted to. We'd probably also be too squeamish to do it, though.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#55

Post by mikem170 »

holonomically wrote: post #32
tomatofarmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is substantial untapped and underutilized potential already within the country. Using tax money to support immigration of those that possess neither skills nor funds, is frankly a slap in the face to all tax payers, and a signal to Americans that we are giving up on them. But of course one powerful group needs cheap labor, and the other powerful group needs more voters. Thus, with collaboration of the media app…

I really don't get how you inferred all that from what I said. A social safety net and better education programs are better for everyone, including the people in whatever country happens to be implementing those programs and policies. The issue with media bias is another matter entirely and is unrelated to what I was saying but I recommend you stop viewing everything with a conspiratorial lens. It is not helpful for…

Perhaps people who think like you, and that would include me, should pool our time and money and sponser immigrants. I wonder if we could. I think doing so would make the world a better place.

But I believe it is wrong to force people who disagree to participate via taxes. I believe it's wrong to impose on other people like that.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#56

Post by diveanon »

coolso wrote: post #44
diveanon wrote: post #21

Good, the world doesn't need more people. Adoption is always a great option if you want a child to raise.

This article isn't about the world, it's about America. If America has less people and the world has more, that's bad for Americans.

And good for the world. Americans are the highest consumers per capita of any nation on the planet, less of us it a great thing for the environment.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#57

Post by holonomically »

mikem170 wrote: post #55
holonomically wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get how you inferred all that from what I said. A social safety net and better education programs are better for everyone, including the people in whatever country happens to be implementing those programs and policies. The issue with media bias is another matter entirely and is unrelated to what I was saying but I recommend you stop viewing everything with a conspiratorial lens. It is not helpful for…

Perhaps people who think like you, and that would include me, should pool our time and money and sponser immigrants. I wonder if we could. I think doing so would make the world a better place. But I believe it is wrong to force people who disagree to participate via taxes. I believe it's wrong to impose on other people like that.

Do you suppose we could pool enough money to start a community college? Or do you suppose it would be better to utilize existing public school infrastructure and make it better at addressing the educational needs of potential immigrants?

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#58

Post by jl2718 »

klipt wrote: post #47
crateless wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been recently picturing a dystopia (utopia?) wherein women sell their eggs to some kind of govt. agency which in turn hires women who are willing to carry babies to term. These babies are then raised in child group homes by state employees all the way from infancy. Meanwhile the state pays for their education until they either graduate or until some kind of arbitrary deadline. Thus the problem could become cos…

That would probably result in 99% of the population effectively being genocided. If the government is farming kids they'd probably only want eggs/sperm from the people most likely to produce high earners who can pay lots of tax. Healthy, tall, high IQ etc. 99% of men and women wouldn't qualify and their genes would go extinct.

Logic says one thing but experience says another. Clearly they are currently providing reproduction incentives for the opposite.

I think there is a common delusion that government is some kind of unified thoughtful entity with logic and foresight. In fact, it’s really just a very short-sighted fight over budget dollars, votes, and campaign contributions.

So in reality, they would probably just replicate more of their most loyal voters. And then there are the agencies. SSA would try to increase the numbers of disabled so they can increase their budget. The FBI would try to increase the number of criminals. Senators would take contributions from industry to produce humans with specialized features like tiny hands and high tolerance for boredom. DOD…who knows. You get the point.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#59

Post by klipt »

diveanon wrote: post #21

Good, the world doesn't need more people. Adoption is always a great option if you want a child to raise.

> Adoption is always a great option if you want a child to raise

Where do you think adopted kids come from? Someone still has to have biological kids.

Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines

#60

Post by tomatofarmer »

holonomically wrote: post #57
mikem170 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people who think like you, and that would include me, should pool our time and money and sponser immigrants. I wonder if we could. I think doing so would make the world a better place. But I believe it is wrong to force people who disagree to participate via taxes. I believe it's wrong to impose on other people like that.

Do you suppose we could pool enough money to start a community college? Or do you suppose it would be better to utilize existing public school infrastructure and make it better at addressing the educational needs of potential immigrants?

I wish you success
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