Well, in America, children are just leverage to extract money from parents: healthcare, kindergartens, universities, all of them try to grab as much money as they can. Insufficient birthrate will be covered by immigration, until one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear.
> one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear. Really? Wow, when did that happen? I went to Rome 3 years ago and the overwhelming majority of people there were Italians. Even many of the tourists in the Vatican were from other parts of Italy.
More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
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Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
> one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear. Really? Wow, when did that happen? I went to Rome 3 years ago and the overwhelming majority of people there were Italians. Even many of the tourists in the Vatican were from other parts of Italy.
Looks like they got roped into the neonazi/"great replacement" stuff by someone (probably Facebook/YouTube algorithm).
The Migration Period is a noncontentious event within the historiography of Rome (i.e. the Roman Empire). It's not related to anything regarding events from today. I disagree with the original assertion that the "natives" were "replaced" but it's not disputed that the Germanic tribes mixed with the native Italics and possibly contributed to the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, ignoring the actual sack of Rome in 410 by the Visigoths, a Germanic tribe invited into the Roman Empire to bolster its declining population, which is probably what the original poster was referencing.
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#13The world is expected to have ~11B people by the year 2100. There are plenty of people even if some countries have declining birth rates. [1] Better immigration policies solve any problems that nations with declining birth rates might have but that requires having politicians that are willing to put aside xenophobic concerns to implement sensible immigration policies. 1: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-g…
1. North America has less of a "problem" than nearly everywhere else, since (overall) it has traditionally tolerated extremely high immigration rates, and potential migrants see it as a desirable destination. Politicians reflect their voters' views. In most countries immigration rates are at least an order of magnitude too low to compensate for low fertility and will stay that way. 2. Most of the projected increase i…
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Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. North America has less of a "problem" than nearly everywhere else, since (overall) it has traditionally tolerated extremely high immigration rates, and potential migrants see it as a desirable destination. Politicians reflect their voters' views. In most countries immigration rates are at least an order of magnitude too low to compensate for low fertility and will stay that way. 2. Most of the projected increase i…
Good points. I'll elaborate what I meant by sensible immigration policies. Sensible immigration policies includes a better social safety net and education programs to allow people to immigrate even if at the moment they don't have the right skills or funds.
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Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#15Well, in America, children are just leverage to extract money from parents: healthcare, kindergartens, universities, all of them try to grab as much money as they can. Insufficient birthrate will be covered by immigration, until one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear.
> one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear. Really? Wow, when did that happen? I went to Rome 3 years ago and the overwhelming majority of people there were Italians. Even many of the tourists in the Vatican were from other parts of Italy.
I meant the ancient Roman Empire.
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#16Well, in America, children are just leverage to extract money from parents: healthcare, kindergartens, universities, all of them try to grab as much money as they can. Insufficient birthrate will be covered by immigration, until one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear.
> one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear. Really? Wow, when did that happen? I went to Rome 3 years ago and the overwhelming majority of people there were Italians. Even many of the tourists in the Vatican were from other parts of Italy.
> Really? Wow, when did that happen?
Importing barbarian fighters to swell the declining rank of the empire is one of the theories of the decline and fall of the Roman empire.
> I went to Rome 3 years ago
About 1600 years too late to be relevant for GPs example.
And for the record, he is wrong about it being relevant to emigration to the US today. Despite having Senators in the Senate on the Capitol hill (Rome had Senators in the Senate on the Capitoline hill), the US is not the Roman republic or empire and the problems they face are not the same.
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#17Well, in America, children are just leverage to extract money from parents: healthcare, kindergartens, universities, all of them try to grab as much money as they can. Insufficient birthrate will be covered by immigration, until one day, just like in Rome, immigrants outnumber the natives and tell them to disappear.
Associated cost has a role in suppression of birth rate but even socialized countries have signifigant declines in birth rate
The value of children declines as a country develops and industrializes. China and the United States share a total fertility rate of 1.7.
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#18Finally one of these surveys that even allows for the answer that people just aren't interested.
It is always hilarious how this sociology field only attracts people that think children are the most fulfilling thing they ever did and everyone else must want that so there must therefore be some other problem like economics.
Turns out the onion satire article was spot on
https://www.theonion.com/study-finds-american-women-delaying...
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#19The world is expected to have ~11B people by the year 2100. There are plenty of people even if some countries have declining birth rates. [1] Better immigration policies solve any problems that nations with declining birth rates might have but that requires having politicians that are willing to put aside xenophobic concerns to implement sensible immigration policies. 1: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-g…
Declining birth rate is a symptom, not a disease. Immigration may be a workaround but not a fix.
The key reason why young Americans don’t want to have children is because the cost of living including raising a child has been exploding for last 20yrs. Housing, healthcare, insurance, student loans and cost of education- all have gone up exponentially when the actual wages have not gone up.
Immigration is a workaround but it has inevitable side effects. Including dilution of labor, assimilation and not to say many Of the core issues mentioned above affect immigrants alike.
Re: More Americans say they’re not planning to have a child, U.S. birthrate declines
#20The world is expected to have ~11B people by the year 2100. There are plenty of people even if some countries have declining birth rates. [1] Better immigration policies solve any problems that nations with declining birth rates might have but that requires having politicians that are willing to put aside xenophobic concerns to implement sensible immigration policies. 1: https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-g…
Declining birth rate is a symptom, not a disease. Immigration may be a workaround but not a fix. The key reason why young Americans don’t want to have children is because the cost of living including raising a child has been exploding for last 20yrs. Housing, healthcare, insurance, student loans and cost of education- all have gone up exponentially when the actual wages have not gone up. Immigration is a workaround b…
Then it's better to address those problems directly instead of scare monger about declining birth rates because the world has plenty of people and will continue to have more for the foreseeable future.