Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does that mean functioning societies have no religion?
No, it means that functioning societies keep religion out of running the show.
Participating in a conversation is not running the show.
Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
271–280 of 291 posts
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that this thread has fallen off the front page, and there are no more comments, we can see that you did not answer any commenters here. Either you never planned to do this, and just wanted to stir up trouble, or you were wrong about there being such comments, either from throwaways or not.
I intended to. I didn't. Life gets in the way. I think my larger point remains true. There are a lot more people arguing that men suffer almost equally in discrimination or women have it better, then I had expected. All of them by men.
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Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#273I have a developing conjecture that in order to address the perceived problem of higher male per capita in certain occupations, attracting males into occupations with higher female ratios is as important as incentivizing female participation in high-male occupations. I'm no mathematician but I see it in terms of system numbers: Given a set of occupations with different sex ratios, to change the ratio of any specific…
There is an observation that men typically like to work with things while women with people all other things being equal. There are speculations that it depends on hormonal balance during pregnancy, but what ever the reason it exists. So by that software development naturally is dominated by men (code is the thing) while professions like veterinary (that pays higher in US than programming) is dominated by women (as m…
Software development was dominated by women in the early days because men supposedly deemed it low class job.
I actually think the real issue is that men are not always professional when working with women that they find attractive. Time for personal anecdote: Every woman I know in tech has been hit on by coworkers, sometimes multiple times even though turning down the man. Depending on the guy, it can get real nasty. In addition, they all hear the same thing at least once "Wow you know programming/hacking/linux, pretty cool for being a girl". Imaging hearing that shit over and over again, of course you will quit.
My point is, there are many factors at play here. Sadly, I don't think there is a good solution to this problem.
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Women attempt suicide two to four times more often than men. (However, men tend to use more violent, and effective, methods of suicide, so succeed more frequently than women.)
Are you suggesting that women are too incompetent to kill themselves? The less sexist explanation is that women generally use suicide attempts as a way of asking for help while men generally use suicide attempts as a way of escape. Stated in those terms, both groups are very competent at achieving the end goal.
isnt this explanation even more sexist? ..
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that this thread has fallen off the front page, and there are no more comments, we can see that you did not answer any commenters here. Either you never planned to do this, and just wanted to stir up trouble, or you were wrong about there being such comments, either from throwaways or not.
I intended to. I didn't. Life gets in the way. I think my larger point remains true. There are a lot more people arguing that men suffer almost equally in discrimination or women have it better, then I had expected. All of them by men.
Yet you did find the time to come back and answer his comment :)
> All of them by men.
You are also a man, and I'm sure you're aware that there are much stronger cultural narratives around men rescuing women than the other way around.
A bit of introspection is needed here.
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't want my daughters sucked into dangerous oil field work prone to boom and bust cycles. Are you implying that it is ok for your sons to be in such a field? To answer your question though... To establish a baseline, women get paid, as a whole, less than men for a particular job title (women doctor paid less than male doctor, women electrician paid less than male electrician). This is on a statistical basis whe…
> Are you implying that it is ok for your sons to be in such a field? I only have daughters.
Its a hypothetical question mostly.
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any evidence for this or is it just wishful thinking? The more diverse a group is the harder it is to communicate because of culture/language barriers. So it doesn’t seem to be obviously true to me.
The parent comment uses “seems” so doesn’t claim certainty. I attended a seminar by Amy Edmunson [0] that cited studies indicating that teams of higher diversity were slightly lower performing on average but had higher variance. The takeaway was that a route to a higher performing team was increased team diversity plus psychological safety can lead to improved results by keeping the top end of the variation range. 0.…
It doesn’t match my experience. The most successful teams I have worked on were not diverse at all. And the worst teams I have worked on were very diverse. It is hard enough to understand each other and communicate clearly in a team without also having to overcome language/culture barriers.
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope. All evidence shows that human psychology is a mix of biology and culture. That’s why you often see sisters and brothers being very different even though they were brought up the same way. Also, you can’t make somebody have a high IQ through culture. It is a biological trait. And your IQ has a high impact on how you perceived the world and learn.
> Nope. All evidence shows that human psychology is a mix of biology and culture. Who are you nope-ing? Because your comment aligns to my beliefs just fine…
I must have misunderstood your comments then.
Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is does not quite fit the general "left-leaning" belief that I have heard. I would rephrase it as "it's popular to deny that there's an underlying preference at play when jobs which used to be female dominated, like programming, became male dominated shortly after they became lucrative." Bringing it back to the subject of the article, this entire discussion is really about tribalism. Humans tend to look favorabl…
> ... when jobs which used to be female dominated, like programming, became male dominated shortly after they became lucrative. Programming was never female dominated. What we call "programmer" now (writing algorithms to compute artillery trajectories or whatever) would have just been "scientist" back then. "Coder" (and before that, human "computer") were indeed female-dominated positions but there's no analog to tha…
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Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that this thread has fallen off the front page, and there are no more comments, we can see that you did not answer any commenters here. Either you never planned to do this, and just wanted to stir up trouble, or you were wrong about there being such comments, either from throwaways or not.
I intended to. I didn't. Life gets in the way. I think my larger point remains true. There are a lot more people arguing that men suffer almost equally in discrimination or women have it better, then I had expected. All of them by men.
I'm sorry but I have to: *tips fedora, M'Lady