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Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#231

Post by dlubarov »

reginold wrote: post #194
timdaub wrote: post #170

Here on HN, I believe there's the effect of a shouting class when it comes to crypto [1]. I think we can take it as a fact that the broad opinion of HN is that many crypto-related links satisfy the hacker's curiosity as outlined in HN's guidelines. That's why we see frequent posts on the front page. A large group is upvoting. But when you look into the comments of the threads, I find that often the topic is discussed…

Is there a place to go where there is curiosity driven discussion of crypto technologies?

I would suggest https://ethresear.ch/. It's Ethereum focused, but pretty open to more general blockchain topics.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#232

Post by reginold »

dlubarov wrote: post #231
reginold wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a place to go where there is curiosity driven discussion of crypto technologies?

I would suggest https://ethresear.ch/ . It's Ethereum focused, but pretty open to more general blockchain topics.

Thank you! Checking it out now. I just found it on this relevant HN thread as well for anyone else looking for curiosity driven cryptocurrency communities: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29139813

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#233

Post by kayamon »

LispShmisp wrote: post #126
glenvdb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that I see in my network of people that the more technically apt they are, the less they believe in it This is because they just see the blockchain as an inefficient database, rather than really understanding the problems Bitcoin solves and why Satoshi made the choices they did. There are important trade-offs between efficiency, redundancy, decentralisation, and robustness in an adversarial environment. The…

Your post comes off strongly as cultish/MLMish. Sorry I don't know how to phrase it so it doesn't come as a personal attack. Most of the crypto posts sound like it. > This is because they just see the blockchain as an inefficient database I think it's crazy that you feel this way, I can only speak for myself and a few others, but we do in fact fully understand it and why it works this way. Satoshi is not some god tha…

But this is why Bitcoin works though. It's why it's important. Because it solves a problem most people have no idea even exists. That's why they get angry when people talk about it, because it seems like people are lying to them or trying to wind them up.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#234

Post by kayamon »

pdimitar wrote: post #152

I don't see anything interesting to be discussed about cryptos. The initial promise of blockchain seems to have been side-lined: independent governing systems, tamper-free databases, and all the good stuff that the enthusiasts used to sell the dream to everybody else. Nowadays it just seems like a speculative market for "get rich quick" suckers to lose their money so the other 1% to 5% who are better informed can act…

> independent governing systems, tamper-free databases, and all the good stuff that the enthusiasts used to sell the dream to everybody else.

That stuff is all still there though.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#235

Post by svennek »

reginold wrote: post #225
svennek wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, we disagree about what PoS means... I believe I use it in the original meaning from around 2010, but I might be mistaken. I do fail to see how the current use of the term PoS guarantees anything against a cartel of bad actors...

With "Proof of Stake" to mean a consensus system, are you saying the Ethereum Proof of Stake implementation doesn't do anything to guarantee against a cartel of bad actors? My understanding is "slashing" may be one such mechanism. This is where staked funds are taken away from bad actors. ie if you propose a block with bad transactions, the 32 ETH you have staked will be reduced by some fraction as punishment. When y…

A cartel is a group of bad actors working together with full, but hidden coordination....

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#236

Post by kayamon »

jkhsdfkjgh wrote: post #35

In my case there isn't curiousity left. I was curious at some point, learned and explored about the subject, and made up my mind. After that there was also a period where I was curious why people were disagreeing with me, but that's gone now too, mostly because I repeatedly find their arguments make no sense. In a nutshell, I'm all for cheaper money transfer, but I've never seen convincing arguments that it follows t…

Agreed. There's no reason why one Bitcoin should be worth X, right? It's just monopoly money, right? Right...?

So homework question: what does define the value of a Bitcoin?

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#237

Post by kayamon »

mrweasel wrote: post #70
spapas82 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no it is not useless in the real world! Using crypto makes it very easy to send and receive money very quickly, without the need to rely to the "system" of banks, governments etc. I can't think of a more useful application, for me it's more of a revolution!

Given the very limited scale of cryto currency, and limited usability in the real world isn’t it pretty much a failed revolution? Bitcoin is still the biggest crypto currency, and compared to Euro, dollars and other currencies, it’s practically useless. The network can’t compete on scale, compared to VISA, MasterCard or AMEX. The crypto currencies try to solve problems much of the western simply don’t have. The tech…

> The network can’t compete on scale, compared to VISA, MasterCard or AMEX.

Yes it can. Bitcoin Lightning solves this. They're using it in El Salvador right now.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#238

Post by seanmcdirmid »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #218
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t El Salvador completely dollarized? It wouldn’t be surprising if most landlords still demanded rent paid in dollars rather than bitcoin (a difference in “the” national currency vs “a” national currency).

It's illegal to conduct business and not accept bitcoin in El Salvador.. it's the national currency now. I don't know for certain if this applies to landlords however.

Legal and enforced are also different things (especially when an autocrat is in charge). There are articles on how many poor people lack internet and are completely unbanked. That it is extremely unpopular in El Salvador. https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/amp/cryptocurrency/articles/...

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#239

Post by kayamon »

gjulianm wrote: post #228
kayamon wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But aren't all problems just due to a lack of technology? Not enough food? Invent agriculture. Or invent the spear and the sandal so you can hunt further afield. Technology is not a field. Technology is what humans apply to improve their lives.

> But aren't all problems just due to a lack of technology? Not at all. I mean, to take your example: > Not enough food? Invent agriculture. Agriculture is invented and pretty advanced and yet there are a lot of humans suffering from hunger. Technology is what humans apply to improve their lives when they don't have a way to do something. Sometimes the problem isn't knowing how to do something, but getting people to…

> Agriculture is invented and pretty advanced and yet there are a lot of humans suffering from hunger.

Perhaps we could invent a new thing to solve that too? Improvements to crop technology, breeding, farming methods continue to happen every year. Inventions like the Internet bring information to people in rural areas who might not otherwise have had access to it. Why can't we solve all these things with technology?

> Sometimes the problem isn't knowing how to do something, but getting people to do it, to give you money for it, to use it in a responsible way, teaching them, logistical issues...

But can't those things all be solved by inventing something? Let's say you wanted to teach someone something, perhaps even without their knowledge or against their will? Could someone not invent a thing or process for doing that?

It seems anything humans invent is just one more tool we accumulate as a society. Once it was language, then writing, then mass communication, now perhaps it'll be a secure economy.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#240

Post by gjulianm »

kayamon wrote: post #239
gjulianm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But aren't all problems just due to a lack of technology? Not at all. I mean, to take your example: > Not enough food? Invent agriculture. Agriculture is invented and pretty advanced and yet there are a lot of humans suffering from hunger. Technology is what humans apply to improve their lives when they don't have a way to do something. Sometimes the problem isn't knowing how to do something, but getting people to…

> Agriculture is invented and pretty advanced and yet there are a lot of humans suffering from hunger. Perhaps we could invent a new thing to solve that too? Improvements to crop technology, breeding, farming methods continue to happen every year. Inventions like the Internet bring information to people in rural areas who might not otherwise have had access to it. Why can't we solve all these things with technology?…

> Why can't we solve all these things with technology?

Unless you invent a way to generate political will, eliminate wars, reduce inequality, no, I don't think you can.

> But can't those things all be solved by inventing something? Let's say you wanted to teach someone something, perhaps even without their knowledge or against their will? Could someone not invent a thing or process for doing that?

No, I don't think you can. You can't fix people not wanting to do things by tech (unless you want to create a slaving machine, and I don't think that's the idea), you can't make tech that magically eliminates energy requirements to transport or build things, or that eliminates costs. I think we need to be at least a little bit realistic when evaluating the problems.

I don't see one can be naive/deluded enough to think all problems can be solved by new technology. It's like someone saying that you only need a hammer for woodworking.

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