Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 278 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#211

Post by cliftonk »

leroman wrote: post #66
ajg4 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will proof-of-stake never happen?

Not op but will give my thoughts- The only theory I'm aware of, which the "proof-of-stake" approach is based on, is some form of "game theory", my translation - "people won't do evil stuff since it's against their interest", which generally aligns with people being rational and basing economic theories on top of this thesis.

Every major chain except bitcoin and ethereum is proof-of-stake now. And in less than a year, ethereum will be proof of stake. People that say proof-of-stake "won't work" have no idea what they're talking about.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#212

Post by malermeister »

reginold wrote: post #195
ykevinator2 wrote: post #154

Because it's not two disinterested parties, it's owners versus mockers. Owners say irrational things because they've drunk the water. It's like asking why don't believers in ressurection ever have curious conversations about the impossibility of ressurection.

This is an important aspect! Crypto is new in that way where everyone can have ownership. I believe everything in the future will be more like this than less. Everything will have financial incentives tied more directly to it. So if anything, the lack of crypto curiosity is a challenge to solve -- how do we get curious in a world where every article, upvote, and comment has a financial stake?

So I think this is exactly why there's not much of a discussion. There's folks that are really excited about what you described, no doubt.

But then there's folks like me that think that vision of commodification of everything is a dystopian nightmare that devalues humanity by forcing everything into an economic corset.

I fundamentally don't want financial stakes tied to anything, in my world view we'd ideally move past money and scarcity.

I don't see how you'd reconcile those two views and that's why there's two very polarized takes on crypto with little nuance in between.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#213

Post by throwaway554 »

svennek wrote: post #204
throwaway554 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird attitude of helplessness. You might as well argue against encryption because the state can always do the $5 wrench attack. It is much easier for the government to confiscate your money from your bank account than to go after your Bitcoin. And it is impossible for the government to stop you from accepting payments in Bitcoin and to cut you off from financial system.

Maybe it is the other way around. I live in an old and free democracy in Scandinavia (in the EU) and actually believe in my government's mostly pure motives. Our laws are solid and confiscation is unheard of outside of criminal activity. If that changes drastically, I am screwed either way... And it might be impossible for my government to stop me taking bitcoin but they could surely hinder me in converting them back…

I'm not sure how does you living in an old and free democracy in Scandinavia negate the fact that Bitcoin helps the unfortunate who are living in authoritarian states.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#214

Post by throwaway554 »

malermeister wrote: post #209
throwaway554 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separating money from the state is worth the cost.

I think this is what every crypto argument secretly comes down to, this ideological disagreement. I don't want money to be separated from the state, and especially not at a cost. One man's crypto-anarchocapitalist utopia is another man's dystopian capitalist nightmare that we sacrificed our environment for.

Imagine telling a guy who lives in a state with over 15% inflation rate that he's destined to stay poor because some people in first-world countries think that hard money is an utopia.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#215

Post by superfad »

reginold wrote: post #184
OJFord wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Ethereum (as in its contracts) is interesting, there's just too much get rich quick fud, SNR too low, for me to confidently be 'actively interested'. Some kind of novel things could be done with it, like that distributed storage thing is sort of interesting. There's a peer to peer betting thing based on (somewhow the outcomes are available to the program?) it I saw on HN a while ago which is sort of interesti…

A way to decrease the noise would be most appreciated. I'm confident there's lifetimes worth of signal, even in crypto developments in the last year. But there is an ungodly amount of noise over price, outrage, etc. I asked in a new thread about where to go for curious conversations about cryptocurrencies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29297611

I think this is pretty much the same question that was discussed a couple of weeks ago. Worth a read, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29139813

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#216

Post by malermeister »

throwaway554 wrote: post #214
malermeister wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is what every crypto argument secretly comes down to, this ideological disagreement. I don't want money to be separated from the state, and especially not at a cost. One man's crypto-anarchocapitalist utopia is another man's dystopian capitalist nightmare that we sacrificed our environment for.

Imagine telling a guy who lives in a state with over 15% inflation rate that he's destined to stay poor because some people in first-world countries think that hard money is an utopia.

I never said money in any form is an utopia.

The utopia would be post-money imo and moving money away from the state would make that harder to achieve.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#217

Post by throwaway554 »

malermeister wrote: post #210
throwaway554 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

56% of energy used for Bitcoin mining is coming from renewable sources of energy.

In other words, 44% comes from non-renewables. It's not like those 56 are free either, we could use that energy to run more important things instead that crypto is taking away from.

In many cases, you can't use the energy that is used for Bitcoin mining for anything else, since there are simply no consumers next to the renewable energy source.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#218

Post by pcthrowaway »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #171
pcthrowaway wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't pay my rent in US dollars, that doesn't make them worthless. Although, to be fair, I did pay a security deposit in bitcoin 6 years ago. Actually, in El Salvador, Bitcoin is now the national currency, so I suspect a lot of people are paying their rent in bitcoin

Isn’t El Salvador completely dollarized? It wouldn’t be surprising if most landlords still demanded rent paid in dollars rather than bitcoin (a difference in “the” national currency vs “a” national currency).

It's illegal to conduct business and not accept bitcoin in El Salvador.. it's the national currency now. I don't know for certain if this applies to landlords however.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#219

Post by reginold »

jkhsdfkjgh wrote: post #207
reginold wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear it. Curiosity is a special thing. It's hard or impossible to force it. I wonder where my own curiosity about cryptocurrencies comes from.

Don't be sorry. There's infinitely many things I no longer have any curiosity left for. Astrology, scientology, homeopathy....

There you go, well then I trust your curiosity has continued to drift in its wonderful way as it always does, defined by where it is rather than where it is not.

Re: Ask HN: Why does cryptocurrency subjects on HN lack curious conversations?

#220

Post by svennek »

throwaway554 wrote: post #213
svennek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is the other way around. I live in an old and free democracy in Scandinavia (in the EU) and actually believe in my government's mostly pure motives. Our laws are solid and confiscation is unheard of outside of criminal activity. If that changes drastically, I am screwed either way... And it might be impossible for my government to stop me taking bitcoin but they could surely hinder me in converting them back…

I'm not sure how does you living in an old and free democracy in Scandinavia negate the fact that Bitcoin helps the unfortunate who are living in authoritarian states.

Obviously it doesn't, and I might be seriously wrong, but....

But would said unfortunate person have access to a passport and are they allowed to leave their authoritarian country?

Do they have anywhere to legally go, where they have the right to residence and can get into the new countries banking system? In the EU at least that is NOT easy unless you already have citizenship in another EU country....

I.e. say you are that person in that country, could you just decide to leave with your twelve word password, your passport and a backpack. And could you setup life in another country?

I do also see the value of storing your money in bitcoin due to inflation, if you believe bitcoin is here to stay (I don't believe that), and you can manage to buy it without too much suspicion from your state and convert it back at a later day if you decide to stay in your own country.

Post reply on HN