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Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

popularmechanics.com

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Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#191

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #176
NikolaNovak wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Honest question: do you really see people touch the level of their ac during a drive? Honest answer, not fudged for sake of making a point - Yes. Absolutely. I don't know if hyper-expensive luxury vehicles do better, but I can vouch that my wife has been frequently changing in our 2012 Kia Sportage, 2016 RAV4, and now 2019 Honda Odyssey. I've observed others do so frequently in Toyota Corolla, Honda Civiv, Subaru C…

> Perhaps it's just psychological. If I'm feeling cold, I don't trust the system and I turn it up. If I'm feeling warm, I want it colder faster. If it's -10C outside, I'll turn it up to 24C even though it may not get me warmer than if I just left it at 21C. Then it gets 24C and I'm hot. This may be just a case of humans using good system badly. If they use linear control that would actually help a bit. What I would l…

They all use a PID in my experience. I think people are victims of a self fulfilling prophecy. They are actually making their temperature controller terrible by disturbing it and disturb it because they think it’s terrible.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#192

Post by NikolaeVarius »

grishka wrote: post #187
LegitShady wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats a tradeoff rather than an error. Making the phone bigger makes it fit differently but is an overall user experience preferred by many.

For me, there's literally no use of this much screen area on a limited communication device that I use away from home . Not a single upside. I'm not a large person, I often use my phone with one hand, and I almost never watch any sort of video on it. I trade the convenience of an ergonomically sensible phone size to get nothing in return.

Then buy a candybar phone. The rest of the world agrees that a larger screen is desireable since it makes almost all interaction better.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#193

Post by grishka »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #192
grishka wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, there's literally no use of this much screen area on a limited communication device that I use away from home . Not a single upside. I'm not a large person, I often use my phone with one hand, and I almost never watch any sort of video on it. I trade the convenience of an ergonomically sensible phone size to get nothing in return.

Then buy a candybar phone. The rest of the world agrees that a larger screen is desireable since it makes almost all interaction better.

In the modern society you'll be denying yourself a lot of convenience, and annoying other people in some cases, if you don't own a phone capable of running Android or iOS apps. So no, at this point it's a hard requirement that it runs a recent version of Android.

> since it makes almost all interaction better

Define "better".

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#194

Post by ineedasername »

midasuni wrote: post #175
ineedasername wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a new car. The old one had HVAC as you described. I don't use the new one any differently though. When it's really cold, I turn the heat all the way up until I'm comfortable. Then I turn it down and keep it there. This is exactly what I did in my old car too. In the new one I just don't use the "auto" feature, and haven't even tried because my established behavior still applies. Then only difference…

A button has opened car doors for 20 years, the keyless start nonsense offers no benefit. To turn the engine off with a key you have to press a button then find the key. When I’m driving I use the buttons on the steering wheel to change volume, station etc, more complex stuff needs a touch screen (CarPlay and maps), that’s fine because of the buttons on the wheel. My current car isn’t great - it has “lane assist” whi…

>A button has opened car doors for 20 years

Yep, but it hasn't been standard, and was a new feature for me in my new car. Believe it or not, so were the power windows.

>the keyless start nonsense offers no benefit.

The only thing it does for me is mean that it's now much easier to leave my keys in my car. I think this trend began when luxury cars started adding it as a high tech marketing point, and then it trickled down over time to most cars in cargo-cult fashion.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#195

Post by NikolaNovak »

vel0city wrote: post #128
NikolaNovak wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this makes me a clueless annoying boring techie nerd :), but I still cannot properly fathom how this is a minority opinion. NOBODY in my non-techie group of friends or family cares. Not.even.remotely. I watch them struggle with their touch screens, I even listen to them rant, but when asked about it afterwards, it's fine. Just fine. Sexy. Sleek. Desirable. Why do I have to go and ruin everything? Honestly, eve…

I've had such a different experience in my vehicles. Even my 2000 Honda Accord had thermostatic controls that were usually excellent at keeping me comfortable. These days with remote start from an app and scheduling trips it can be 100F outside but by the time I'm getting in the car is a nice 73F inside. I'm not constantly fiddling with my home's thermostat, why would I be doing the same with my car's? I'm sorry all…

>>I'm not constantly fiddling with my home's thermostat, why would I be doing the same with my car's?

I assume because at home I'm generally in constant shade and not as exposed to radiative elements. Whereas in the car, air temperature is only one factor. Outside sun, temperature of surfaces etc are additional significant factors

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#196

Post by abakker »

chimen wrote: post #160
abakker wrote: post #68

I have to say, I’m optimistic about the controls in the Ineos Grenadier. I’m not sure I can afford one, but man, the dash design is good.

Too bad it looks like a fridge and has a motor that consumes and pollutes a lot. Will make a great car for serious off-roaders and full time mommies picking up children from school no doubt.

One day, we’ll have reliable fast electric chargers and a backup for charging when off grid. I’ll bet that off road drivers would love to adopt electric motors if they could. The torque characteristics are great, regenerative braking is handy, and the lack of clutches is great. We’re not there yet, but Jeep is getting closer.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#197

Post by amluto »

fishtacos wrote: post #132
amluto wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re describing a good auto A/C. The bad kind controls the average air temperature but has no concept of radiation, resulting in the driver being way too hot when it’s a cold sunny day and the sun is coming from the front left. The thermostat thinks the average temperature is fine, runs the A/C blower on low, and fails t cool the driver.

Considering I'm describing personal experience in a rather old American automobile that I still own and drive daily, it's probable that I'm describing the bad kind. HVAC's job is not to deal with radiation and sunray angles, nor to adjust for it, IMO. To that end, it's superb engineering.

I had a 1991 car that I consider "good". I'm not sure exactly what its secret was, possibly just generally high fan speed, but it worked fine. In my book, a good HVAC's job is that, if I set the thermostat to a temperature I find comfortable, it should make me comfortable without much further fiddling.

My Tesla fails on this front. To fine tune it (which is quite necessary), I need to go through a layer of menus on the laggy touch screen and figure out which control I need to mess with to stay comfortable. This is dangerous.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#198

Post by ziml77 »

tonymet wrote: post #125

Responsiveness has many facets. tactile feedback (like the solid click of a rocker ), visual distinction , feedback latency (how many milliseconds between input and taking action), tactile distinction (can you distinguish the control without looking at it), audible distinction . soft buttons , soft logic controllers and touch UIs fail at all of the above the result is a sluggish, frustrating and counterintuitive expe…

Have you tried tapping the button instead of holding it? You can usually change the values a lot faster that way.

But I'm with you on it being stupid. I'm fine with the temperature control being digital (I've had issues with multiple non-digital ovens having too much inaccuracy in their temperature control), but there should be a knob to change the temperature.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#199

Post by ziml77 »

Causality1 wrote: post #82

Digital vehicle temperature control is just infuriating. There are only two settings: blast the driver with freezing air until the rest of the car cools down, or roast the driver alive until the rest of the car warms up.

I've always dealt with that by just adjusting vents. If the A/C is freezing me, I point the vents a bit over me. If I'm very hot for some reason then I'll adjust one or more of the vents to point right at me.

Re: Bring Back Our Knobs: Analog vs. Digital (2009)

#200

Post by DangitBobby »

throwawayboise wrote: post #150
LegitShady wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats a tradeoff rather than an error. Making the phone bigger makes it fit differently but is an overall user experience preferred by many.

It's a terrible tradeoff. Every time I need a new phone I search for the smallest one I can find, and it's always bigger than my last phone.

People have the same options you do and make different choices. I'm well aware I could have a smaller phone. My last smaller phone was really annoying for web browsing, which accounts for like 90% of my phone usage.
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