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Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

131–140 of 145 posts

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#131
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Beria was a good manager, they wouldn't have to threaten to shoot people. Or, another approach is that managers who threaten their employees' lives are awful at their jobs. In the free world, managers don't threaten that and they achieve far more. Even in the military, whatever the law, even in wartime it's never done afaik.

Beria was, without a doubt, a cruel maniac. Chertok in his books - https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/rockets_people_vol1_deta... , but the episod is, I think, from volume IV - tells the following story. Soviet space designers are in the beginning of the work on the manned Moon expedition. Korolev and Glushko - two towering figures, the best rocket constructor and best engine constructor of the country - can't find…

An anecdote retold from a book is not meaningful, even if true. And if Beria couldn't accomplish that without threatening their lives, it's again a massive failure on Beria's part.

In addition, any bad manager can scream at and threaten people about some individual issue, but there is a lot of evidence that it's very counterproductive overall. What people learn to do is to avoid the danger, not to get anything done - including taking no initiative or responsibility, or even accomplishing something that might attract attention.

Nobody models themselves on Soviet management; it's almost the epitome of bad management, the picture in the dictionary. The Soviet space program performed poorly compared with the US.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#132
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same goes for today's leaders of organised crime, you have be CEO-material in order to manage 'Ndrangheta's ~50 billion euros business [1], it's not enough just to be able to kill some guys on a dark street in Catanzaro anymore. [1] https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210113-ndrangheta-crime...

True. El Chapo or Pablo Escobar were excellent leaders and businessmen besides being remorseless killers.

What is that based on?

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#133
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Scary thought for today: what happens when MAGA world finds someone with not just charisma, but competence and energy?

That’s what I am thinking. It doesn’t even have to be MAGA only. I bet wokeness could also turn into a dictatorship with the right leader. That’s why rohe current US political climate where people think that the other side is evil and can’t be negotiated with is so dangerous. The right leader can make a case that there is a dangerous crisis and that laws have to be suspended to deal with the threat and voila you have…

> I bet wokeness could also turn into a dictatorship with the right leader.

What is that based on? The progressive left heavily supports the democratic process, they don't try to prevent anyone from voting, they haven't elected anyone who advocates that. They also control no state or national executive positions and no legislatures, while the GOP recently controlled the White House, regularly controls both houses of Congress, and controls many governorships and state legislatures - and openly use that power to prevent people from voting them out. In many states, the voters cannot choose who runs their legislatures.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If police starting executing 10 random homeless people every night, it wouldn't necessarily "solve" homelessness but the homeless would get very creative, very quickly to figure out how to not be where-ever the police were looking. As with any management technique, it's about making sure you're focusing people on the right efforts, for values of "right" in terms of getting what you want. A horrifying police state has…

If police starting executing 10 random homeless people every night, it wouldn't necessarily "solve" homelessness... That would rapidly cut back on the obviously, highly homeless population. Over the course of a year, that would be 3650 fewer homeless in the area. When I was homeless in San Diego, there was an estimated 10k homeless on the streets of that city. Such a policy would tentatively eliminate the population…

> it's politically incorrect to analyze it

It's pretty senseless too. The monsters were ineffective at everything but maintaining their own power. The Soviet Union was an economic, social, and political disaster that collapsed. It's a bizarre example to look to, like basing your agriculture on Soviet farming practices.

It's so trendy to embrace hate and cruelty as if it's just unavoidable realism, but it's really just reactionary rhetoric designed to undermine everyone to the left of the far right (i.e., anyone with any compassion or decency). We need to stop playing games with hatred and stand up for - and 'analyze' - something better, something positive that will get done something good.

> Ideally, in a humane environment, we find ways to think outside the box without having to shoot people to make that socially acceptable.

Ideally?

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#135
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beria was, without a doubt, a cruel maniac. Chertok in his books - https://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/rockets_people_vol1_deta... , but the episod is, I think, from volume IV - tells the following story. Soviet space designers are in the beginning of the work on the manned Moon expedition. Korolev and Glushko - two towering figures, the best rocket constructor and best engine constructor of the country - can't find…

An anecdote retold from a book is not meaningful, even if true. And if Beria couldn't accomplish that without threatening their lives, it's again a massive failure on Beria's part. In addition, any bad manager can scream at and threaten people about some individual issue, but there is a lot of evidence that it's very counterproductive overall. What people learn to do is to avoid the danger, not to get anything done -…

> The Soviet space program performed poorly compared with the US.

Soviet Moon program was a competitive endeavor - Korolev used Kuznetsov's engines, Chelomey was cooperating with Glushko, Yangel used one of the most modern space factories in USSR and proposed his own plans. And they all were supported.

Contrary to this, in USA NASA was playing strict Gosplan. Parts were doled out to different manufacturers, and the state was controlling everything and writing checks.

No wonder USSR lost :) . Market approach couldn't compete with centralized planning.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

There is a really interesting take on Beria in what is possibly the best Stalin's biography ("Court of the Red Tzar"). Apparently, Beria saw himself a successor to Stalin who would put the country onto a milder course, and he was looking forward to redeeming himself in the face of history. There was something to the effect of him saying that his children would get educated at Oxford. And he did not mean it how curren…

Beria's claims or promises are meaningless; that's a completely untrustworthy source. Beria was a homicidal maniac telling you that, if you give them power, they'll be 'milder'.

Lots of homicidal maniacs, and even plain old dictators, say the same. The next step, after they gain power, is to say that there is a new period of openness, and their critics are encouraged to speak out. This releases some pressure while the dictator consolidates control over the levers of power - it's not rule of law, so unlike an elected President, the levers don't just shift to the new person. And of course it helps that their critics identify themselves. You should know what happens next. (A popular early step is that enemies are arrested for 'corruption'.)

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#137
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An anecdote retold from a book is not meaningful, even if true. And if Beria couldn't accomplish that without threatening their lives, it's again a massive failure on Beria's part. In addition, any bad manager can scream at and threaten people about some individual issue, but there is a lot of evidence that it's very counterproductive overall. What people learn to do is to avoid the danger, not to get anything done -…

> The Soviet space program performed poorly compared with the US. Soviet Moon program was a competitive endeavor - Korolev used Kuznetsov's engines, Chelomey was cooperating with Glushko, Yangel used one of the most modern space factories in USSR and proposed his own plans. And they all were supported. Contrary to this, in USA NASA was playing strict Gosplan. Parts were doled out to different manufacturers, and the s…

> Parts were doled out to different manufacturers, and the state was controlling everything and writing checks.

> No wonder USSR lost :) . Market approach couldn't compete with centralized planning.

What a bizarre depiction on many levels. It's like Soviet revisionist history.

No matter what your analysis, the Soviet space program after very early days has not been competitive with the US, nor were the Soviets competitive in almost any other technology, economically, socially, politically, etc etc.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. El Chapo or Pablo Escobar were excellent leaders and businessmen besides being remorseless killers.

What is that based on?

They built and ran billion dollar international organizations that employed thousands of people and managed to not get killed or arrested for a long time. That's not an east thing to do in my book

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#139

I was born in the USSR and speak Russian. I generally get Russian humor and some Russian jokes are quite funny. However I share the author’s opinion here: finding the humor in these jokes is rough. I watched the first video where the jokes are being told and honestly event the funniest of these are barely funny. You have to really place yourself into the situation where these people are considered larger than life an…

I am French. This is the exact problem I have with some movies my Polish friends told me to watch. They were from the 70-80's and were making fun of the situation at that time (how to game the communists, the system, or the absurdity of said system). I did not find them funny at all because I did not have the context. To me they were depressing. I wonder how contemporary young Polish people see them today (when they…

These jokes are often not funny to non Eastern Europeans, but jokes from one ex-communist are often easy to understand in other ones.

The Martyr Made podcast guy also remarks that when he tells people a Polish joke he heard, Westerners are completely unamused while Easterners do find it funny.

Here's the joke: https://martyrmade.com/19-the-anti-humans/ (skip to 12:17) You can pretty much replace Poland with Romania, and many others and it works just as well.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a really interesting take on Beria in what is possibly the best Stalin's biography ("Court of the Red Tzar"). Apparently, Beria saw himself a successor to Stalin who would put the country onto a milder course, and he was looking forward to redeeming himself in the face of history. There was something to the effect of him saying that his children would get educated at Oxford. And he did not mean it how curren…

“It does sound wild (to me as well), but then there is evidence of USSR party elites (e.g. Kaganovich) turning from maniacs and terrorists into peaceful bureaucrats overnight upon Stalin's death.” Same happened in Germany. Nazis turned practically overnight into exemplary democrats.

Yes, it's amazing how civilized people can be when their paycheck depends on it XD
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