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Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

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Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#341

Post by sergiomattei »

joelbluminator wrote: post #337
pmarreck wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve tried purely function languages and I just can’t wrap my head around them because they abstract too much. Not sure what you mean here specifically (do you not understand Enumerable.inject in the Ruby stdlib? That's about the hardest thing to understand and once you're there, functional langs are pretty trivial) I was already coding in a functional style in Ruby (PORO, intentionally not mutating vars, etc.), so…

Or...you are working on way smaller Elixir projects. Lets see how fun it is to inherit a million line old Elixir project 7 years from now. Or a million line codebase split into 50 services. I am sure you'll be productive as hell cos Elixir!

I sometimes wonder whether your job is to be a full-time dick about Elixir.

It's been years of this nonsense. Let it go.

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#342

Post by [deleted] »

sergiomattei wrote: post #341
joelbluminator wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or...you are working on way smaller Elixir projects. Lets see how fun it is to inherit a million line old Elixir project 7 years from now. Or a million line codebase split into 50 services. I am sure you'll be productive as hell cos Elixir!

I sometimes wonder whether your job is to be a full-time dick about Elixir. It's been years of this nonsense. Let it go.

[deleted]

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#343

Post by [deleted] »

mypalmike wrote: post #312
inopinatus wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a good metaphor for anything, really: no-one was enlightened; at best some reddit-grade snark was conveyed.

I worked with Ruby for two years. The metaphor is apt when considering software development as an engineering discipline. It was certainly not meant as snark. You disagree, that's fine.

[deleted]

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#344

Post by inopinatus »

mypalmike wrote: post #312
inopinatus wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a good metaphor for anything, really: no-one was enlightened; at best some reddit-grade snark was conveyed.

I worked with Ruby for two years. The metaphor is apt when considering software development as an engineering discipline. It was certainly not meant as snark. You disagree, that's fine.

Not really sure what you think I disagree with, since the metaphor is so vague and wishy-washy it could apply to anything from theology to stamp collecting, but it sounds like trying to conflate late binding with some manner of bad coding style.

Well, since I have been privileged to work with several really great Ruby teams over the last couple of decades, whose large and well-structured code uses metaprogramming techniques yet remains easy to follow & comprehend (and debug and extend), and who remain splendidly productive to boot, I can say, if this bunch of guesses at the intended meaning of that "soap bubble" metaphor hold water, then yeah, I disagree.

Conversely, shitty code can be (and is) written in explicit import and early-bound languages. The enterprise world, for example, is riddled with massive hairballs of brittle, unmaintainable, boilerplate-heavy Java.

All of which only goes to show that people, not the programming language, are the problem.

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#345

Post by pmarreck »

joelbluminator wrote: post #337
pmarreck wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve tried purely function languages and I just can’t wrap my head around them because they abstract too much. Not sure what you mean here specifically (do you not understand Enumerable.inject in the Ruby stdlib? That's about the hardest thing to understand and once you're there, functional langs are pretty trivial) I was already coding in a functional style in Ruby (PORO, intentionally not mutating vars, etc.), so…

Or...you are working on way smaller Elixir projects. Lets see how fun it is to inherit a million line old Elixir project 7 years from now. Or a million line codebase split into 50 services. I am sure you'll be productive as hell cos Elixir!

:: let me hand-wave a merely possible but not at all guaranteed negative future scenario to argue against a better solution today ::

that's basically what you just did. "Electric cars will pollute someday! Just you wait!" >..Keep in mind that I've worked on small Ruby projects as well, and still prefer Elixir.

I'm not gonna suggest that there wouldn't be challenges in that scenario, but it just seems to me so far that they'd be much more manageable given the thoughtful design of Elixir.

The biggest problem in my app currently is actually JS/Node dependency hell, not Elixir code... and the JS only makes up a small portion of my app! (I should have never used AdminLTE as a design template...) At least my JS is tested (which was another huge PITA to figure out... simulating a DOM...)

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#346

Post by pmarreck »

joelbluminator wrote: post #308
pmarreck wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord, an app with 300 million users, is apparently built on an "obscure piece of tech" >.. maybe come out from under that ruby rock and smell the dev air now and then Also, I was on Ruby since the time when it was "trying to be the next Java" (this was prior to 1.0!). All good things start out small. Anyway, after the initial learning curve, much happier working in Elixir/Phoenix than I ever was in Ruby/Rails... e…

1. I don't know Discord that well but looking at their Github it lists Javascript, Python, Rust, C++ and Elixir (in that order). Is Elixir their main language? Their careers page has tech all over the place - Rust, Java, Python, I actually am not bumping into Elixir. Could be a coincidence but it reinforces my feeling that Elixir is not the main language on Discord (if they even have one). 2. The amount of users Disc…

Elixir is the language that ties all those other languages together there and was also their first language, until they had to branch out into those other ones for performance or other reasons.

> The amount of users Discord has has nothing much to do with anything

The argument I was arguing against was that Elixir is niche, not argumentum ad populum. It's no longer really niche, just elite. ;)

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#347

Post by oblio »

joelbluminator wrote: post #335
wavesplash wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, really? Why are unicorns like Shopify or Github are still using Rails if that's the norm?

Shopify is not a unicorn...sorry for nitpicking. Its a publicly traded company worth 210 billion dollars. It used to be a unicorn a long time ago.

Now that I think of it, are there any major startups launched post Rails glory days? Some time around and before Rails 4.0, so 2013.

Almost all the major former startups that I could find are from 2010 or earlier.

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#348

Post by bcrosby95 »

eropple wrote: post #263
bcrosby95 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But C# has had everything you've listed for over 10 years. Along with a great IDE that has provided very useful intellisense since pretty much the beginning.

You couldn't (easily) use C# to write the frontend for a web application that you wanted to use as either a developer or a user, though (which is to say sit down, ASP.NET Web Pages , nobody ever liked you). That's the lock that TypeScript turns, IMO.

There aren't that many languages that do this even today, much less 10 years ago. You've basically turned what was a discussion about static typing in general into Javascript vs Typescript.

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#349

Post by dang »

joelbluminator wrote: post #337
pmarreck wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve tried purely function languages and I just can’t wrap my head around them because they abstract too much. Not sure what you mean here specifically (do you not understand Enumerable.inject in the Ruby stdlib? That's about the hardest thing to understand and once you're there, functional langs are pretty trivial) I was already coding in a functional style in Ruby (PORO, intentionally not mutating vars, etc.), so…

Or...you are working on way smaller Elixir projects. Lets see how fun it is to inherit a million line old Elixir project 7 years from now. Or a million line codebase split into 50 services. I am sure you'll be productive as hell cos Elixir!

Flamewar comments like this are not ok on HN and will get you banned if you do it repeatedly. Please make your substantive points without swipes.

Also, please keep tedious programming language flamewar like this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29288298 off HN. We're trying for something more interesting here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... is totally unacceptable, and we ban accounts that carry on like that. I don't want to ban you, so please don't post like this again. In fact, please just stop posting about this topic and stick to things that genuinely gratify your intellectual curiosity. Conducting a putdown campaign against what other people like is an abuse of this site.

Re: Where is Ruby Headed in 2021?

#350

Post by stickfigure »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #333
stickfigure wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ IDEs predate the existence of Java, let alone Java IDEs. Microsoft Visual C++ was excellent for the time, and did most of what you expect a modern IDE to do. In 1993.

Visual C++ didn't get Intellisense until 1997 and even then it was poor. C++ has never caught up with the tooling that Java and .Net developers have.

It may not have been branded as "Intellisense" but I remember Visual C++ did many forms of code completion back in the mid 90s. It was quite good for its time.

I also used Visual J++ towards the late 90s. Its code completion was good as well.

IDEs are great now, but they were plenty good back then too. This is not something new under the sun. The benefits of static typing have been around for a long, long time.

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