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The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

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Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#211

Post by WriterGuy2021 »

helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

> This is the kind of things that show how inviable is a market-led economy without proper regulation.

The medical industry is highly regulated. I can't just go open up a practice giving people stiches. I would need a whole slew of certifications in order to do so. That's why this situation in the US is so absurd. The market is regulated to limit the competition at the expense of the consumer.

In the U.S. the "free market" is mostly a myth.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#212

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

mbreese wrote: post #162
helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

> example of the benefits of free market economy Healthcare is rarely a good example of the free market. Medical decisions aren’t made by comparing costs between providers. And if you’re in rural America, you’re lucky if you have any provider. Price transparency would be nice, but maybe not as helpful as you’d like. Let’s say you’re in the middle of a rural area and the ER says you need stitches — but they cost $6000…

But that's exactly how a free market does work.

It's exactly what any rational person would expect from a corporate free-for-all designed for maximum extraction potential based on maximising political power differentials.

Good state-owned care smooths out the inequalities, so farmers in the middle of rural area will at least have affordable access to basic care, and more advanced care will be within easy travelling distance.

This ends up being far cheaper for everyone who needs medical care - which is basically everyone.

The only losers are profiteering shareholders.

Of course you still pay for it, but you don't pay as much. And you won't be bankrupted by bills for which you either have no cover at all, or limited insurance cover which still leaves you with a huge sum.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#213

Post by alisonkisk »

thrower123 wrote: post #29

This is why you want to go to ConvenientMD or similar urgent care centers for anything not acutely life-threatening. It's usually faster than being seen at an ER, and costs an order of magnitude or more less - my insurance has a baseline fee of only $50 vs $600 for the ER.

This doesn't make the ER scams acceptable.

It's like saying "Be more careful to avoid being mugged or raped."

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#214

Post by 1cvmask »

helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

The US medical system is incredibly regulated and constricted by the government and the rules and regulations. It is NOT a free market. An English friend who moved to the Bay area for work at Genentech had a wife who was a doctor from the UK. She could NOT practice as a doctor in California. This is deliberate by design. The AMA restricts the number of doctors to prevent their incomes being reduced.

The third party payment system of medicine is both directly paid for by the government and subsidized by tax writeoffs for the private insurance industry (which is tied to employment).

And meanwhile during a pandemic majority of Americans supported Medicare for all. Yet the corporate politicians are against it. The performative art of the "squad" was at full display when they had a chance to force the "Medicare for all" vote and passed on it.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/12/jimmy-dore-vs-cenk-uygur-dem...

https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-rejects-left-wing-calls-...

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

We deserve what we vote for.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#215

Post by BowBun »

300bps wrote: post #183
nyamada wrote: post #18

My daughter here in France had a bike accident two months ago which requires 14 stitches in her foot. We received 3 follow-up visits from nurses to clean and redress her wounds -- We pay about 100€ a month for supplemental private insurance on top of the public health insurance here -- Total cost for us? about 40€. We would have had to pay about 100€ more for the nurses' visits, but the mutuelle covered it. These are…

I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.

Even with 'excellent insurance' (which I think I have as well), you still deal with deductibles, non-covered procedures, inability to choose and shop for prescriptions, limited choice of providers, HSAs, massively inflated prices... the list goes on. To the point of another commenter, just having to reason and think about the costs of necessary healthcare in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is a complete joke. Some people having OK experiences in the US still pales in comparison to the majority having good experiences in most other developed countries.

Edit: Also having your health tied to your employer is also a joke. I've read enough stories about people getting screwed by employers who know they need the insurance and get away with abusing employees.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#216

Post by boplicity »

refurb wrote: post #51
causi wrote: post #2

Somehow everybody in this system claims they're not the ones making bank on this swindling. The doctors say they're underpaid. The hospital admin says they're underpaid. The insurance companies say they're barely covering their payouts. So who is lying?

Well UCSF charged my brother in law $20,000 for an MRI a private standalone MRI clinic charges $3,000 for. Insurance paid UCSF $16,000 after discount. So I’d say the hospitals definitely are a part of the problem. You can imagine what he did with a fund raising letter he got from UCSF asking for a donation so they could continue to help the community…

> Insurance paid UCSF $16,000 after discount.

There you go. The insurance company is actually incentivized to not negotiate a lower price.

What if they refuse a ludicrous price? Their customers will complain -- what, what? go without MRIs?

Worse -- the insurance company gets to keep 20% of the costs as profit. For a $16,000 bill, that's $3,200. For a $3,000 bill, that's just $600.

So why, again, would they fight for a lower bill? No reason. Competition from other companies? Unfortunately, they're all playing the same game, and lower premiums are simply not happening.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#218

Post by melenaboija »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #71
helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

The US is not a market-led economy in healthcare; I currently live in a country with universal healthcare and I make clear to people that when I disagree with universal healthcare it is not because I think it should be more like the US.

It is not uncommon in US going to the hospital and they giving you a list of options and prices. I don't know how to call that but definitely feels like a market.

BTW, I come from from a European country with universal healthcare and have been living in US for almost a decade and the feeling of someone making money of your health is at least weird. If I ever have some severe health issue no doubt I will go to treat myself to my country of origin.

EDIT: Also tired to hear about the problems of universal health care, specially with wait times. It is true that less important treatments could take some extra time but I have never seen a case where a fast intervention was needed and did not happen. I would say that common sense is something that works for universal healthcare. At least where I come from.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#219

Post by lucidguppy »

Americans have to watch their health more these days. Companies are now ONLY offering high deductible plans. You HAVE to invest in your HSA for things to be sane.

You cannot afford to be overweight or t2 diabetic in America, not anymore. The biggest money makers are cardiovascular surgery. These are bankruptcy makers.

Get your teeth checked out and clean. Get physicals - keep your cholesterol low. Get the vaccines and booster. Try to get as healthy a weight as possible. Watch your higher risk behaviors. Avoid cigarettes and alcohol.

Even then its a roll of the dice.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#220

Post by jac241 »

js2 wrote: post #103
helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

Meanwhile, Congress passed a bill that's supposed to help with surprise billing. The Biden administration has started to implement it, but doctors and their representatives (Democrats and Republicans alike) claim the administration is not implementing the bill as intended and they are favoring insurance companies over medical providers by trying to keep costs down. > “The Administration’s recently proposed regulation…

Those greedy doctors trying to protect their livelihoods from a bill that gives insurers an easy path to drive down their reimbursement when an alternate method of doing the same thing (New York's law on surprise billing) exists that does not have that same feature. I for one know that software engineers would certainly support bills that would reduce their pay for the greater good! Physicians are the only group that everyone expects to work for less and less money. It may surprise you, but most software engineers will have an easy time outearning the majority of physicians. It's not the 80s anymore. Doctors aren't super rich. Doctors aren't the ones who made you sick, but they are the ones who trained for 7+ years to take care of the problem. Shame on them for wanting to earn a living.
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