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The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

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Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#91

Post by OJFord »

wombatmobile wrote: post #83
knubie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really any healthcare procedure that is not typically covered by insurance has seen costs go down over time. Things like lasik eye surgery, or orthodontics are great examples in addition to the ones you've already mention. The service and technology gets better while the price continues to go down.

> The service and technology gets better while the price continues to go down. What did you think the farmer who was charged $6,589.77 for 6 stitches might have to say about that proposition?

GP is talking about:

> any healthcare procedure that is not typically covered by insurance

Which I (not American) assume stitches in the emergency room are.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#92

Post by LightG »

smabie wrote: post #48
blackhaz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people somewhere, with cigars, in $5,000 suits. "Look at all those schmucks! $400 per shot and $1,000 per stitch." The whole healthcare system needs to be regulated by the government end-to-end. All procurement must be transparent. Every cent traced. Pharma mafia dismantled - on a federal level.

Who are these people? Where are they? Not really convinced they exist.

Owners, private equity firms, VC's ... whoever is the ultimate lever in this arena. It's not hard.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#93

Post by helloguillecl »

chiph wrote: post #59
helloguillecl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that you cannot freely open a clinic in Chile, and Doctors have the monopoly on many treatments that are delivered by nurses or other workers in Europe. Becoming a Doctor is not easy, and foreign Doctors must go through difficult tests before working for the public system. Additionally, I remember that many supplies come from... the United States? So what regulations are you talking about? Maybe you me…

There's three areas that I'm aware of. Certificates of Need, which some states require before you can offer certain services (like MRI/CT scanning). Supply contracts, where a hospital has a pre-set price for consumables like IV solutions, scalpels, and bandages with a supplier. And advertising. The Certificate reduces competition because they impose geographical exclusivity. If you want to buy a MRI machine for your…

Well, I think then you'd agree with that we need the right regulation so the right incentives are put in place, and that at best would be better not to have the industry dictate the regulation, that in this case sounds absurd.

I was very surprised the first time I watched an open-tv US Channel seeing thousand of ads for prescription medicine. Which I believe are forbidden the countries I have lived in (CL, ES, DE)

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#94

Post by JshWright »

willcipriano wrote: post #85
wombatmobile wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The service and technology gets better while the price continues to go down. What did you think the farmer who was charged $6,589.77 for 6 stitches might have to say about that proposition?

"I wish stitches were done on a fee for service model like shooting lasers into people's eyes is."

That was still a FFS model. The difference is whether the procedure is typically covered by insurance.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#95

Post by heavyset_go »

causi wrote: post #2

Somehow everybody in this system claims they're not the ones making bank on this swindling. The doctors say they're underpaid. The hospital admin says they're underpaid. The insurance companies say they're barely covering their payouts. So who is lying?

If you're looking for somebody that's walking away with fat bags of cash, you aren't going to find them on payrolls.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#96

Post by refurb »

Aeolun wrote: post #74
refurb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well UCSF charged my brother in law $20,000 for an MRI a private standalone MRI clinic charges $3,000 for. Insurance paid UCSF $16,000 after discount. So I’d say the hospitals definitely are a part of the problem. You can imagine what he did with a fund raising letter he got from UCSF asking for a donation so they could continue to help the community…

Meanwhile, the most expensive MRI I’ve ever gotten in Japan was $300 before insurance. Even the private clinic is making bank like there’s no tomorrow.

It was a complicated MRI that was actually 5-6 MRIs in one and involved radiocontrast.

Their standard lower back MRI was $400.

Price competition can be fierce in MRIs since the startup costs aren’t high and you can pull patients from everywhere.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#97

Post by LinAGKar »

refurb wrote: post #46
helloguillecl wrote: post #8

This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…

The plastic surgery and vision correction industries work pretty well in the US. You see price competition and patients have the ability to shop around and make choices that are important to them (references from other patients, doctor personality, etc). Now contrast that with going to a hospital for a procedure where you have time to shop around. Can you get a price? No. Can you easily get appointments with doctors…

>What’s the difference?

The difference is that one is completely optional and you can spend as much time as you want comparing options, while the other you're forced to do on a whim at whatever place is closest. You can't shop around when you're bleeding out, as in the article. And such emergency health care constitutes most of these surprise bill situations.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#98

Post by LightG »

donatj wrote: post #75
smabie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are these people? Where are they? Not really convinced they exist.

They don’t exist. They’re the imagined scapegoat for what is actually just a much harder to comprehend creeping bureaucracy cost. The human mind loves clear enemies but Hanlon’s Razor almost always applies. Almost no one ever actually has malicious intent, but our brain evolved to watch for enemies and loves seeing patterns where they aren’t.

Cool story.

So what you're saying is there is an horrendous creeping bueaucracy cost here.

Funny, because that's exactly what free market proponents argue is the cause of inefficiency in publicly managed healthcare systems, and the reason to move towards models based on the US system.

Someone is lying.

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#99

Post by vidarh »

chiph wrote: post #59
helloguillecl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that you cannot freely open a clinic in Chile, and Doctors have the monopoly on many treatments that are delivered by nurses or other workers in Europe. Becoming a Doctor is not easy, and foreign Doctors must go through difficult tests before working for the public system. Additionally, I remember that many supplies come from... the United States? So what regulations are you talking about? Maybe you me…

There's three areas that I'm aware of. Certificates of Need, which some states require before you can offer certain services (like MRI/CT scanning). Supply contracts, where a hospital has a pre-set price for consumables like IV solutions, scalpels, and bandages with a supplier. And advertising. The Certificate reduces competition because they impose geographical exclusivity. If you want to buy a MRI machine for your…

The certificate of need business seems bizarre. I live in London, and the place is so crowded with clinics offering cheap MRIs it's ridiculous, despite the fact you'll get them covered in the NHS I'd you actually need them (literally the very first ad I found for MRIs offered them for 200 pounds).

Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER

#100

Post by squarefoot »

I suffered a really bad motorcycle accident on Dec 2020 with fractures on both wrists, one arm, one shoulder and L4 vertebrae. Had to get arm and backbone stabilization surgeries and almost two months hospitalization plus rehabilitation. Total cost: zero. I later paid just a few dozen € to get the full medical documentation, tests results, etc. plus all the DVDs with the imaging, but that was my choice. I have neither insurance nor a job; if it wasn't for our healthcare, I really don't know what would have happened to me.

Actually I paid for it in advance with my taxes during my past jobs, and that's the whole point of universal healthcare: it's an investment for those who one day will need it, and a form of contribution for everyone else. Frankly I have never understood those who oppose it; are they so anally retentive wrt their money that they can't renounce to a fraction of their income to help others, and potentially themselves too?

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