This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…
The stitches are expensive mostly because of many regulatory factors that restrict the supply of medical services and drive costs up, with the "free market" component being in how much they can charge the patients. It's the worst of both worlds in the US.
The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
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Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#32This is absurd. Even in a country with liberal economics and "free choice" health system (however with universal care, and state regulation), the same stitches in a world-class private clinic in Santiago, Chile would cost 400 USD, before insurance . The clinics there are not the ones Americans imagine from a middle-income country, most of them have better infrastructure and doctors than the ones I know in Europe. And…
$400 still sounds high, to be honest.
Imagine how expensive a software dev team would be with 24/7 work, and full cycle scrum sprints every 72 hours to allow for constant pivoting, with injects from one to a bus load of product owners.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
$400 still sounds high, to be honest.
Yes, and it would be even more expensive in Germany. But in both countries the insurance covers normally 50% of it, wherever you go. If not all. (Other sickness are covered normally 80% if not entirely whatever insurance you have)
It’s not like you’re taking up a hospital bed. It’s a sew up and show you the door operation.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#34Somehow everybody in this system claims they're not the ones making bank on this swindling. The doctors say they're underpaid. The hospital admin says they're underpaid. The insurance companies say they're barely covering their payouts. So who is lying?
1) Insurance companies don’t pay sticker prices. They pay negotiated rates. At the same time, hospitals have to pick up a lot of ER costs that are never covered. They might be making money but reasonable amounts at best (also that’s probably not true either considering how many hospitals are shutting down in the US).
2) The negotiated rates insurance companies pay are still very high. They are probably making a good profit, but their margin is still probably a fraction of the margin of many other industries, and it’s not like they have no competition, so they do have market pressure to reduce prices.
3) Doctors pay a ton in education and liability insurance and delayed earnings due to the extensive education required. They can spend over a decade, and be into their 40s before their net worth turns positive.
So where is all the money going is an excellent question. No one is benefitting from this current system.
1 obvious destination for the money is the education system in the US. Higher Ed in the US is an increasingly growing money pit. Tuitions are exploding. Loans are exploding (and educational loans are unique in the US in that they cannot be canceled in a bankruptcy). Administrative salaries are blowing up. Ever fancier buildings are being built. Yet money for teachers, researchers and remasters/phds is plummeting. It’s a complete scam with the entire system paying ever more money to build fancy buildings, the vast majority of the cost of which is captured by corrupt contractors with connections to university presidents, etc.
Then you have the pharma industry, which unlike any other civilized society, needs to advertise to consumers in the US. This means they have pressure to constantly grow their sales and once popular enough they have parents, and once generic, brand value, to force hospitals and patients to buy overpriced drugs.
But the US can’t outlaw pharma ads like nearly every other civilized country has, because that will then destroy your Media and Tech industries, and where ads, and therefore pharma ads, make up a massive source of income.
And I’m sure the same dynamic probably applies to medical tech as we’ll.
So in honesty, the money is likely going to the places that are showing that they are receiving money. Not in the healthcare system, but rather to tech, media, and construction and real estate.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#35Somehow everybody in this system claims they're not the ones making bank on this swindling. The doctors say they're underpaid. The hospital admin says they're underpaid. The insurance companies say they're barely covering their payouts. So who is lying?
My understanding is that the ER system is especially expensive because paying customers are subsidizing non-paying customers (homeless) who use the ER as primary care. That said, I don't think this excludes the possibility that the insurance companies and the hospitals are also not telling the full truth.
And you can't shop around for cheaper treatment. Partly because you are not in position to do so and partly because no one will tell you full price in advance.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#36Somehow everybody in this system claims they're not the ones making bank on this swindling. The doctors say they're underpaid. The hospital admin says they're underpaid. The insurance companies say they're barely covering their payouts. So who is lying?
The American insurance system has inherent efficiency problems. Hospitals are for profit corporations. Doctors are reviewed on how much revenue they generate per patient - usually by asking for more diagnosis and treatments - which is what patients want too. Too much admin, too little doctors. Someone should get the admin to doctor ratios at hospitals, it is nuts. A lot of admin is there to handle the insane document…
FWIW lots of hospitals are non-profit (though I expect that changes are investors are moving more and more into the space).
That doesn't mean they don't focus on doctor's revenue, it only means there are no owners skimming off the top, but there are still execs being paid (a lot), as well as suppliers, etc... I'm not saying NFP hostpitals are worse (or even as bad as) FP, but they're hardly good.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#37I'm in my mid 30s and have left fixing up some damaged teeth and my large wisdom teeth impacted for 17 years too long, this Monday I'm going to get them removed under general anaesthetic at a private hospital. The Australian government covers hardly any dental unless your teeth have completely rotted through and are chasing other issues. So far my costs are: - $4500 in fillings and general dental. - $1800 for a crown…
Sure you wait a while for our public health stuff if it’s not life threatening, and if you’ve got the cash available then private is faster/fancier, but the public system does work.
Re: The ER charged him $6,589.77 for 6 stitches, cost that led his wife to avoid ER
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that the ER system is especially expensive because paying customers are subsidizing non-paying customers (homeless) who use the ER as primary care. That said, I don't think this excludes the possibility that the insurance companies and the hospitals are also not telling the full truth.
I think it is more that prices are not transparent. Instead they are impredictable. And you can't shop around for cheaper treatment. Partly because you are not in position to do so and partly because no one will tell you full price in advance.