I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro • Hacker News Board

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#51

Post by marcan_42 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

detaro wrote: post #37

amelius wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I've never updated my CPU microcode in other distros, nor did I receive warnings about it. Do you have a better example?

... yes, because your distro did the right thing and does provide updated packages and loads them for you (it's not persistent, but rather done on each boot), and thus you don't need to do anything and also don't see warnings about your distro failing to do so. Whereas linux-libre doesn't want you to know if your distro isn't loading updated microcode, because it's "better" (according to them) to run vulnerable non-u…

Yup, it's all about controlling users' access to hardware and software to fulfill some imaginary "freedom" ideal that doesn't actually have any relevance in reality.

Stallman personally refused to certify bunnie's Novena laptop (a fully open hardware and software laptop) as "Respects your Freedom" because there were no free drivers for the GPU, and although it wasn't going to ship with GPU acceleration (that's optional anyway), Stallman said users might be "tempted" to install the proprietary blob. Instead he suggested it might be possible to get the manufacturer to cripple the GPU (permanently fuse it off of existing chips that already have it), and then that could be RYF-certified.

bunnie gave up on that, but had he actually shipped a crippled FSF-approved version... a few years later, open drivers for that GPU were developed, so that would've made the regular version certifiable, and everyone who bought the "respects your freedom" version would've been left with needlessly crippled hardware. But the FSF insists this is the way to go.

Meanwhile, they're endorsing "Respects Your Freedom" Bluetooth dongles that have about half a megabyte of proprietary firmware in ROM.

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#52

Post by medo-bear » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

marcan_42 wrote: post #47

medo-bear wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

serious question: why is something that is updated without you knowing about it ok?

It's updated when you update all your other packages. It's no different from updating your shell or your desktop environment.

but i am aware when those updates happen and what they are. they are not automatic or hidden

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#53

Post by detaro » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #50

detaro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way that it's ok that if you update your distro it fetches newer drivers, a new kernel and patched versions of all the software you installed? Microcode is loaded at runtime, it's not permanently modifying your system.

but i dont do that automatically, as the parent described. as far as i am aware i need to manually issue a comand to perform the update, which is ok as far as i have that control

"automatically" as in "automatically when you update the rest of your distro", not an extra step as the poster above clearly seemed to expect. That context also was clearly from the other comments already.

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#54

Post by e12e » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #50

detaro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way that it's ok that if you update your distro it fetches newer drivers, a new kernel and patched versions of all the software you installed? Microcode is loaded at runtime, it's not permanently modifying your system.

but i dont do that automatically, as the parent described. as far as i am aware i need to manually issue a comand to perform the update, which is ok as far as i have that control

Distros prompt you when upgrading packages, not binaries. You get a prompt to update Firefox package, not for replacing the actual binary on disk.

Typically packages including microcode behave the same way - prompt to update the package, no prompt to implement that update (replace individual files).

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#55

Post by atemerev » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #43

> being on the bleeding edge as 64-bit went mainstream, compiling kernels (and everything else) on Gentoo, to more recently VFIO and then Proton That’s a very unique definition of “fun”.

This is why many of us are in the profession.

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#56

Post by marcan_42 » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #52

marcan_42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's updated when you update all your other packages. It's no different from updating your shell or your desktop environment.

but i am aware when those updates happen and what they are. they are not automatic or hidden

It's just a package. It's not automatic nor hidden. If you've never noticed it being updated, then you probably haven't been paying enough attention to the package list when you did choose to issue a system-wide upgrade command.

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#57

Post by atemerev » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

Guix is excellent, however, I use CUDA heavily in my work, and it is hard to plug nVidia drivers into Guix.

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#58

Post by medo-bear » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #50

detaro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way that it's ok that if you update your distro it fetches newer drivers, a new kernel and patched versions of all the software you installed? Microcode is loaded at runtime, it's not permanently modifying your system.

but i dont do that automatically, as the parent described. as far as i am aware i need to manually issue a comand to perform the update, which is ok as far as i have that control

i dont seem to be able to reply directly. my question was meant as a clarification because simply saying something is "automatic" is very ambiguous. "automatic" to me means giving up control. to me whats being described is not "automatic"

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#59

Post by izacus » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #52

marcan_42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's updated when you update all your other packages. It's no different from updating your shell or your desktop environment.

but i am aware when those updates happen and what they are. they are not automatic or hidden

So is the microcode package and the loader that loads it. What kind of difference are you trying to make here?

Re: I Love Arch, but GNU Guix Is My New Distro

#60

Post by medo-bear » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 11:24 AM UTC

medo-bear wrote: post #52

marcan_42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's updated when you update all your other packages. It's no different from updating your shell or your desktop environment.

but i am aware when those updates happen and what they are. they are not automatic or hidden

if its not automatic or hidden then it is ok, as long as you have that control. to be clear i think GNU has every right to forbid non-free software just as anyone has the right to not use GNU software if they don't want to. what should be known about are consequences and responsibilities for either (any) decision. if GNU says we dont want to support this security update it needs to clearly state the risk their users face. if it does that then its ok as far as i am concerned