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Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

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Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#81

Post by BoxOfRain »

Animats wrote: post #2

Beria really was in charge of the early Soviet nuclear weapons program, and, while everyone was terrified of him, he was apparently good at managing the program. The classic joke about that, and it may not have been a joke, is that after the first bomb worked, the people who would have been shot if it failed got the Hero of the Soviet Union award. The ones that would have been sent to a labor camp got some lesser awa…

The Soviet nuclear weapons programme was completely terrifying, their early reactors were open-cycle which meant the water cooling them was contaminated and simply dumped eventually leading to this lovely tourist spot where an hour on the shores of the lake would be a certain death sentence:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_of_Lake_Karachay

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#82

Post by dzonga »

Animats wrote: post #49
spaetzleesser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Scary thought for today: what happens when MAGA world finds someone with not just charisma, but competence and energy?

like a tom cotton ? most people don't realize how close that reality is to come to fruition.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#83

Post by catlikesshrimp »

lmilcin wrote: post #15
spaetzleesser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.

Nope. Daniel Ortega and Nicolas Maduro, in their countries in Latin America, today, can put any one in prison within hours for no reason besides a capture order. And they can do it in bulk. They can kill, but they don't need to. Not high profile victims, at least.

Their countries are and will remain poor because they are idiots beyond what is necessary to stay in power. They aren't good administrators.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#84

Post by stjohnswarts »

I had to stop at

>> c) a reminder that we are having some laughs in the service of the building of weapons of mass destruction and there’s something inherently problematic about that.

Is it problematic though? To occasionally laugh at the absurdity of it all. All of what we have gotten ourselves into as a species?

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#85

Post by thriftwy »

tada131 wrote: post #46
IgorPartola wrote: post #40

I was born in the USSR and speak Russian. I generally get Russian humor and some Russian jokes are quite funny. However I share the author’s opinion here: finding the humor in these jokes is rough. I watched the first video where the jokes are being told and honestly event the funniest of these are barely funny. You have to really place yourself into the situation where these people are considered larger than life an…

Russian too, yep thats not funny, but you should know one of the most must-do things for US (gov payed) historian today - eventually write story about freaky-bloody Stalin, Gulag and Beria who eats children. For the sake of Freedom and Wellfare of course. Don't forget that von Neumann was truly genious at least because he wanted to wipe that Hell from the Earth (Yep they never told you that) Somewhat expressive and s…

But they did for the most part eat children, which is often confirmed by their own investigations of each other, there's the one for Beria where he coerced dozens of women to have sex with him, including many minors.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#86

Post by simonh »

Beria versions of humorous anecdotes and quotes eh? Feynman is cool, but let me try a Churchill one.

Lady at Dinner: "Mr Beria, you are dunk!"

Beria: "I may be drunk Madame, but in the morning I shall be sober, whereas you will be shot."

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#87

Post by pjc50 »

Animats wrote: post #2

Beria really was in charge of the early Soviet nuclear weapons program, and, while everyone was terrified of him, he was apparently good at managing the program. The classic joke about that, and it may not have been a joke, is that after the first bomb worked, the people who would have been shot if it failed got the Hero of the Soviet Union award. The ones that would have been sent to a labor camp got some lesser awa…

The hard antithesis of "fail fast and early so you learn something". The problem with this technique is what to do once you've shot the first group of experts.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#88

Post by PeterisP »

lmilcin wrote: post #15
spaetzleesser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.

You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.

No, this is demonstrably false by contrasting this with all the many (most?) totalitarian "managers" who had the same abilities to terrorize people but were rather ineffective despite that. There can be an obvious difference between the personal abilities of two people in a similar role, even if that role is evil.

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#89

Post by drran »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #42
lazypenguin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also say not to underestimate the effort required to be in the position where you are making the threats rather than on the receiving end. A rise to that position also includes effectively managing your rivals into oblivion.

I am willing to agree. That is one of the reasons I sometimes feel people do not treat Putin seriously enough. The guy rose through ranks of US equivalent of CIA. You do not get there purely by luck. You do need skills including management.

Or a sister by mother in Germany...

Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria

#90

Post by drran »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #45
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am willing to agree. That is one of the reasons I sometimes feel people do not treat Putin seriously enough. The guy rose through ranks of US equivalent of CIA. You do not get there purely by luck. You do need skills including management.

I would rate Putin as extremely intelligent. What he has achieved is pretty impressive and he has held his position for a very long time. . You don’t have to like him but you have to accept that he is very good at what he does.

Yeah, it looks like he will succeed at demolishing of the Jail of Nations.
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