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UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

latimes.com

111–120 of 235 posts

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#111

Are there any reasons why a private or public university wouldn’t want to maximize the number of tuition paying students? I’m just wondering because why not just admit as many people as you could for various price tiers of: in-person, hybrid, and online education. So in that sense, as long as money wants to come in, why reject anyone other than to fake exclusivity?

Because student tuition does not cover anywhere near the full cost of running a school.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#112
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about the ACT, but the SAT in that time period was trivial to study for. I had one Barrons book, and the rest was accomplished by being a student in a public school. There were no surprises come test day. I genuinely don’t understand when people say the SAT is so biased, because it seemed quite fair to me compared to alternative metrics. Unless asking someone to spend a lot of time studying is too much t…

The SAT isn't hard to study for, but the question is, if your dad is in jail (which many of my black friend's dads were), you are feeling uncertain about the world because of the color of your skin, would you put in the effort? I think people look at tests like the one and all, but many kids have other stuff to work out.

Ok, lets take your example. why should the kid in your example get a step over a kid with a stable family. Even kids in stable families have dreams. Even stable families got problems.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT isn't hard to study for, but the question is, if your dad is in jail (which many of my black friend's dads were), you are feeling uncertain about the world because of the color of your skin, would you put in the effort? I think people look at tests like the one and all, but many kids have other stuff to work out.

If you aren't willing to put in the effort for a multiple choice (easy) exam, you are failing any STEM college degree (the only ones that give you a chance at making it out of the poorhouse), straight up. Compared to the SAT intro calculus at any top university is magnitudes harder. If you admit the kids you're talking about under affirmative action they'd just be weeded out in intro courses and get relegated to some…

I have a History degree, and I'm doing fine. I'm sure most of the PMs who design the tech engineers build will also agree.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what part of this is fixed by getting rid of the SATs, exactly? do all the other problems that are making it hard to get on top of school suddenly disappear? do they magically disappear in college? how is it even beneficial to remove one possible avenue for demonstrating aptitude beyond the ability to succeed in a classroom environment, which is profoundly tilted toward rich families who can help kids with homework,…

Strength leads to strength. If you can get to a place of prestige and that place continues to have high standards, then the people who are bound for the streets or no purpose have a means to a higher goal. Maybe I believe that if you give people a little bit of chance, they end up better?

ah, so you just find a way to continue to have high standards while continuously lowering the standard for admission

but that's not even the point... the post was about how students who don't care about school will somehow be better served by getting into a good school anyway. sure, some people will have an "oh shit i cant screw this up" moment, but... many will just fail. right? and in the meantime, the student who didn't get the chance to pursue their dreams... does what? it is unfortunately a pretty zero sum game. i wish it weren't. i think it'd be great for universities to figure out how to scale up much bigger than they are currently for exactly this reason.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#115
post #2

UC schools have already become dubious - the entitlement of grads, the actual LACK of skills, not remotely "hungry" enough to have any grit or motivation, etc. My father (an engineering manager) always said: "If you want GOOD employees, you never want to hire from UCB, Stanford, Cal Tech, etc. The best engineers in California come from Cal Poly SLO and Cal Poly Pomona. They are actually trained as engineers". This is…

How many Cal Poly SLO grads at Stripe (or choose any stratospheric make-you-rich company you like) compared to Stanford grads?

This person seems to be stating that grads of these schools are of good quality, not that they are necessarily successful in the workforce.

In my opinion, the biggest upside of CSU's is that they provide a vastly more diverse student body. There's a greater range of financial situations, age groups, and ethnicities. I feel this experience working with folks from a variety of backgrounds is an essential part of a strong candidate.

I'm personally not really on one side or another. "Alternative" paths (e.g. CSU's, community college, no school) seem to create candidates that have had a diverse life experience. Top UC's/private schools create candidates that are regarded as more academic.

That's just my take on it, and I feel that people being on one side or the other is mostly due to which of these stereotypes that person prefers.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't willing to put in the effort for a multiple choice (easy) exam, you are failing any STEM college degree (the only ones that give you a chance at making it out of the poorhouse), straight up. Compared to the SAT intro calculus at any top university is magnitudes harder. If you admit the kids you're talking about under affirmative action they'd just be weeded out in intro courses and get relegated to some…

I have a History degree, and I'm doing fine. I'm sure most of the PMs who design the tech engineers build will also agree.

You may be doing fine, but objective measures of the average salary of humanities majors at schools like UCB say otherwise.

Most of the PMs I know have either business or STEM degrees.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#117
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT isn't hard to study for, but the question is, if your dad is in jail (which many of my black friend's dads were), you are feeling uncertain about the world because of the color of your skin, would you put in the effort? I think people look at tests like the one and all, but many kids have other stuff to work out.

Ok, lets take your example. why should the kid in your example get a step over a kid with a stable family. Even kids in stable families have dreams. Even stable families got problems.

I think they both need to meet in the middle. I came from a low-income family and had plenty of wealthy friends.

Kids with stable families have money. Take away the money, and the thing that gave them the advantage goes away. For the poor kids, the money is no longer a blocker.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#118

I feel like with a 5-4 Supreme Court (6-3 if Breyer doesn’t retire) the explicit rationale of race percentages sets this up for a Supreme Court defeat.

Breyer is one of the three liberal justices. If he retires and Biden gets to choose a replacement, it would still be 6-3.

I consider Roberts a liberal for a case like this so I think the court is 5-4 now and if Breyer doesn’t retire before 2022 (when Republicans are 99% likely to take the Senate) it will be 5-3 until there’s a Republican President.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#119
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they should have to list tribe enrolled & blood quantum. At this point, I wish the tribes could sue these people for fraud. The continued closing of doors on the most downtrodden minority is pathetic.

I'm 1/8th. Is that enough? 1/4th? Where's the line? My state gave out grants to small businesses during the pandemic and directly said on the application that preference would be given to minorities. I didn't check both white and native only because a local organization would be dispersing the funds and I live in a rural area. Quite frankly, I'm sick of "reverse" racism. That was my state government all but telling m…

> I didn't check both white and native only because a local organization would be dispersing the funds and I live in a rural area.

I don’t see the logic. Are you saying that you’d become persona non grata in a small community for claiming these funds?

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been my impression from people who lived in China that guanxi (connections) is far more important than the Gaokao and the main difference between the have and the have-nots is whether you and or your parents have a permit to live in a city. When I bring the point of the standard exam as a great equalizer they immediately laughed and told me that the US is a egalitarian paradise compared to what goes on there.

My ex-boss is Chinese and this is what she had to say: The best universities in China are public universities. Performing competitively in the single standardized exam is the only ticket into the most competitive university programs. Everyone's results are posted publicly. The government works very hard to prevent cheating, or loss of trust in the exam or its results.

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