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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#281

Post by ryantgtg »

Findecanor wrote: post #228
Oddskar wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on where you hang out. A lot of the DIY mechanical keyboard Discord communities are tremendously helpful and open to newcomers for instance. On the flipside of that is perhaps the geekhack forums, with a ton of elitists that sometimes have little patience for people that are not up to speed.

(Geekhack veteran here). My impression is that all kinds of people are on Geekhack and that all keyboard topics are welcome, but some users are definitely louder than others: mostly about pushing their preferences onto newbies and (mis)lead them into buying expensive things they won't like. The forums I find worse are /r/mechanicalkeyboards on Reddit (elitist about customs) and Deskthority (elitist about vintage, and…

Yeah, my experience is the opposite of the person you’re replying to. I’ve asked a couple questions on geekhack and received terrific responses (I was confused about the swappability of my switches). And the dischord I visited was filled with pepe memes and was pretty toxic.

(Unrelated, my personal story:) As is my habit, I got real into researching MKs for a few months, went through 2 (one I liked pretty well but I really missed dedicated home/end keys, and one that had switches that were slightly too tough to push and thus I kept missing letters) before I found my dream one: Mistel MD770 with MX Browns. It’s a split that I can shift around however I like. I love it. Oh, and to finish what I was getting at, as is my habit I can now stop thinking about MKs and will soon forget most everything I learned.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#282

Post by bastardoperator »

twhb wrote: post #161

The mechanical keyboard community is unfortunately really toxic. In addition to second hand accounts, I have a friend who’s a newbie in it who I encouraged to talk to people to get her bearings, and there was a basically unanimous chorus of “fuck off, until you have something to offer us you’re just a waste of time”. I think it’s partially because it’s largely gamers, and partially because it’s largely about perceive…

I've had the opposite experience, everyone has been super helpful and friendly. Honestly, I think it's mostly people working in technology with deep wallets with most people purchasing for them themselves. They already have a forums at https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ and https://geekhack.org

I just bought a crappy razor keyboard specifically for gaming because I rather trash a cheaper keyboard versus my topre.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#283

Post by mumblemumble »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #279
csdvrx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

I get the impression that mechanical keyboard people tend to be hard typers. The keyboard I have now uses cherry MX reds, and everything online suggested that these were super sensitive and you'd mis-type a lot. Only good for games. But honestly, I could go for something even easier to press. I fail to actuate the left shift with my small finger quite a lot. Guess I have a light touch.

It depends? Cherry MX keys have very stiff springs IMO - it's definitely an oldschool feel. Low profile keys tend to have a shorter pre-travel, and may have lower actuation force.

They aren't available on a lot of keyboards, but I'm fond of Kailh Speed Copper switches. The travel and speed needed to activate the key is comparable to that of a mid-2000s Apple keyboard, but the tactile bump is much lighter, and there's a whole lot more travel after the activation point before you bottom the key out. I find this to be really cushy; I can type lightly but quickly, with very little impact because I'm not hitting the end of the key's range of motion with any force.

That said, the annoying thing here is that it's expensive to try keys. Even when computer stores have keyboards you can try out, they usually only have the run-of-the-mill red, brown and blue switches.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#285

Post by p_l »

Findecanor wrote: post #214
csdvrx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

Topre Realforce aren't really mechanical keyboards — they are rubber dome keyboards. They get lumped together with them only because they are high quality rubber domes, with a luxurious feel. I would best compare Topre to Key Tronic Lifetime and ErgoForce rubber dome keyboards from the '90s. Both those and Topre are full-travel, and have a distinct bottom-out feel, but they still require you to bottom out. They are a…

Except they aren't rubber dome switches, the rubber is just part of the spring mechanism while the switching itself uses capacitive sensing.

Similarly, infamous Hall effect switches, as well as the similarly rare optical switches, don't use mechanical component for switching itself... Rubber dome switches, however, technically do (switching happens when the keys cause physical hit on the membranes)

P. S. Yes, I'm riffing about how it doesn't really matter.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#286

Post by mysecretaccount »

vehemenz wrote: post #216

Topre switches are great! But can someone explain the draw of HHKBs? Aside from nerd street cred, that is. A lot of programmers swear by them, but I don't understand why. Let's talk about the layout. As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl—but inexplicably, there are huge gaps where the regular Ctrl keys would be. There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or k…

> As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl

I think typically vim users will map caps lock to ctrl and use ctrl+[ when escape is needed.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#288

Post by dopu »

papandada wrote: post #226

I skipped the whole mechanical keyboard acquisition cycle (thanks to a comment or two from HN), bought a Niz, totally happy with it and best keyboard I've used, haven't been tempted to keep searching.

I’ve tried mechanicals (Cherry switches), various rubber domes, the IBM buckling spring keyboards, and the Apple scissor switches. Then I was recommended the Niz by a friend, and it’s the closest thing to ideal I’ve ever used. To be honest, owning mechanicals made me realize how gimmicky they are. They distract me from my own writing, and can be a huge pain in the ass to coworkers or close ones trying to sleep. Unusable during work calls. No such issues with these nice electrocapacitive boards. I anticipate I’ll stick with them for a long time.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#289

Post by egotripper »

I've used a few dozen keyboards. An early one was the nice capacitance keyboard in the Processor Tech Sol-20. I'm forever looking for a keyboard that feels like that. I'm using a Topre Realforce now. I've tested different keyboard keys by ordering key sample kits through Amazon, and found a couple that feel and sound similar to a Topre. I prefer shaped keys to Apple's flat short-travel keys because my hands can find the home position more readily.

One issue about Realforce: the configuration software for it is Windows only. Also Topre has said the keyboard might not work properly when connected to a Mac. I get the sense after using one for a while that the keyboard gets confused in a minor way, but beyond that I like the keyboard and expect to use it for a few years.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#290

Post by montecarl »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #286
vehemenz wrote: post #216

Topre switches are great! But can someone explain the draw of HHKBs? Aside from nerd street cred, that is. A lot of programmers swear by them, but I don't understand why. Let's talk about the layout. As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl—but inexplicably, there are huge gaps where the regular Ctrl keys would be. There are no arrow keys or nav cluster, which means you need to use layers or k…

> As a Vim user, I need my CapsLock->Esc. Fine, so I'll remap Ctrl I think typically vim users will map caps lock to ctrl and use ctrl+[ when escape is needed.

This is the most important thing I have ever learned about using vim. For the past 15 years it is the first thing I do on any computer I use.
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