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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#271

Post by cole-k »

twhb wrote: post #161

The mechanical keyboard community is unfortunately really toxic. In addition to second hand accounts, I have a friend who’s a newbie in it who I encouraged to talk to people to get her bearings, and there was a basically unanimous chorus of “fuck off, until you have something to offer us you’re just a waste of time”. I think it’s partially because it’s largely gamers, and partially because it’s largely about perceive…

Maybe it's changed in the past five years, but I don't recall being treated disrespectfully when I was active on /r/mk and deskthority (can't speak for geekhack, and I admittedly wasn't very active on deskthority).

As what switches/layouts/keycaps/etc. folks like are highly subjective and sometimes polarizing, I would often see people espousing opinion as fact. But no one treated me rudely even when I asked dumb questions in their daily discussion/advice threads.

I agree that much of the community consists of essentially bragging to other people about your own keyboards. But I saw even braggarts showing up in newbie threads to try and help other people get into the hobby.

Edit: I will add though, I tend to lurk for a while and gather knowledge before I even ask a newbie question. And I probably fit better with the kind of boys club tech bro culture that you're implying is prevalent (although I can't say I noticed this all too much).

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#272

Post by bikingbismuth »

basedbertram wrote: post #203
archarios wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical != loud.

Yeah, pretty interesting! I had no idea there were all of these different offerings for the switches.

Silent MX Blacks are uncomfortably quiet when you type on them. I find the Zilent 67g to be my favorite switch. It hits all the right check boxes for sound and comfort.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#273

Post by MrApathy »

spear wrote: post #247
MrApathy wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: "Rigorous Japanese Quality Standards," earlier this year I ordered a Leopold FC980C. It arrived with a warped case that would not lay flat on my desk (tested on multiple surfaces to make sure the problem wasn't with my desk). So much for legendary QA.

Leopold isn't Japanese, though?

Yes, true, Leopold is Korean, however the C boards with Topre switches are made in Japan, though some sources say made in China and inspected in Japan.

I believe Leopold sells a similar line of non-Topre keyboards as well, certainly possible that the cases are manufactured elsewhere and imported/sent to various factories based on switch type.

Regardless, if final assembly/inspection does occur in Japan, it was quite disappointing to receive a keyboard with such an obvious defect, especially at that price point.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#274

Post by iratewizard »

twhb wrote: post #161

The mechanical keyboard community is unfortunately really toxic. In addition to second hand accounts, I have a friend who’s a newbie in it who I encouraged to talk to people to get her bearings, and there was a basically unanimous chorus of “fuck off, until you have something to offer us you’re just a waste of time”. I think it’s partially because it’s largely gamers, and partially because it’s largely about perceive…

I have used mechanical keyboard for a long time, and I think they're great. But I think it's weird to have a community centered around them.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#275

Post by bluGill »

stevage wrote: post #265

I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the argument that low demand is keeping price high before!

Really? Then you must not know much about manufacturing and how it scales.

If you want a widget it will be made on a general purpose machine with skilled labor. If you a dozen some simple jigs will made, the jig costs as much as a widget(ofte more ), but lowers the effort to make more. By the time you get into the tens of millions it is worth making custom machines for each step.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#276

Post by brenainn »

I built a split keyboard recently (Sofle) and it's made a huge positive impact for me. Having halves at shoulder width and full control over the layout with QMK is great, and it finally got me to learn to touch type. If you're considering a Moonlander or Ergodox, and you're handy with an iron, look into building one first.

It generally works out cheaper than prebuilt, but I did end up nickel and diming myself making arbitrary improvements. A good read if don't you want to get sucked into the ridiculous prices of custom keyboards like I did: https://golem.hu/guide/budget-builds/

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#277

Post by cole-k »

xattt wrote: post #17

Am I the only one out of the loop about this product, or does that site read like “native” advertising?

In defense of the site, the mechanical keyboard hobby consists of a lot of buying things. New keyboards, new keycaps, new artisans, new cases, new cords, new switches... I'm probably missing a few of the other things people buy. So it would make sense that a blog related to it would be giving advice on what to consider when you're next shopping for something keyboard-related.

Not in defense of it, the site does seem to be the typical blog model of review and drop an affiliate link.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#278

Post by vijucat »

csdvrx wrote: post #260
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m using silent red and I don’t find them too noisy. One of the main advantages of a mechanical is that they are often programmable so you no longer have to rely on software based methods to change key mappings. Caps lock is Escape everywhere all the time.

> Caps lock is Escape everywhere all the time This would be a limit: I use AHK to have chorded keys: - caps is esc if used alone, control if used with another key - enter is enter if used alone, control if used with another key - shift left is page up if used alone, shift if used with another key - shift right is page down if used alone, shift if used with another key - alt left is home if used alone, alt if used wit…

This is super interesting. I absolutely love AHK, too. But can you please clarify how you achieve, "caps is esc if used alone, control if used with another key"? Is it based on whether the key is still down (pressed) vs. up (released)?

If you don't mind, can you please share your script? My Capslock-as-a-modifier setup is very simple. I just use Capslock + various keys to do stuff:

   Capslock & p::Send, {PgUp}
   Capslock & n::Send, {PgDn}

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#279

Post by LAC-Tech »

csdvrx wrote: post #77
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

I get the impression that mechanical keyboard people tend to be hard typers. The keyboard I have now uses cherry MX reds, and everything online suggested that these were super sensitive and you'd mis-type a lot. Only good for games.

But honestly, I could go for something even easier to press. I fail to actuate the left shift with my small finger quite a lot. Guess I have a light touch.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#280

Post by LAC-Tech »

wildrhythms wrote: post #213
archarios wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to understand that you don't need to bottom out your switches to actuate them. I have Kailh Copper switches which barely require me to push them down very far in order to actuate. Also they're pretty quiet. You can have your preferences, but blanketly saying that all mech keyboards "require too much strength" and are "loud" is wrong. The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases.

The dexterity required to only press the key (roughly) half way to the actuation point is just as strenuous; you might as well be bottoming them out every time. I prefer extreme short travel keyboards for this reason. Quieter, shorter key travel distance, much less fatigue.

Can you show me an example of what you mean by shorter key travel keyboards? I think I'm in the same boat as you.
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