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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#261

Post by jmgao »

dmbaggett wrote: post #10

I've been really impressed with Wooting keyboards for gaming after trying many alternatives. (My daily driver for coding is a Kinesis Advantage2 due to RSI, but they suck for games.) Has anyone tried both Wooting and Topre? Or for that matter, Wooting and anything they liked as much or better?

> Or for that matter, Wooting and anything they liked as much or better?

I got my Wooting 2 HE yesterday, and it feels great, but I think I still prefer the Cherry MX low profile speed switches that I bought by accident (I thought I was buying a replacement for a keyboard with full profile MX speed switches, but I was happily surprised to learn that I preferred the low profile switches). Adjusting the activation height to 1.0mm gets me most of the way there, though.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#262

Post by csdvrx »

wyclif wrote: post #243
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m using silent red and I don’t find them too noisy. One of the main advantages of a mechanical is that they are often programmable so you no longer have to rely on software based methods to change key mappings. Caps lock is Escape everywhere all the time.

I have Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl, like a UNIX-style keyboard. Otherwise, my requirements for a mechanical keyboard are simple: 1. High quality, tactile switches (Cherry MX Blues or Browns) 2. Programmable keymapping 3. TKL layout 4. 6NKRO 5. PBT double-shot molded keycaps (not ABS) 6. Steel baseplate with as little flex as possible 7. Removable USB-C cable 8. Black or grey (dark colours) I don't care at all about RGB,…

> I don't care at all about RGB, that's a gimmick to me. I'm not a gamer.

I once spent time writing a CPU, RAM, and IO barmeter using RGB backlight, using one color and one line of keys for each indicator.

It's VERY practical for a sysadmin!

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#263

Post by csdvrx »

stan_rogers wrote: post #246
wildrhythms wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I remember the keyboard you're referring to- the keys had squared corners and slightly concaved shape? The newer Thinkpad keyboards have much different- and worse- flat keys with rounded corners, and mushy. I've actually come to prefer the much shorter Macbook style keys nowadays.

That's the one. And I'm not fussy one way or another about the keycaps - I loved the old ones, but I can see the arguments for the "island" style as well - it's the switches underneath that were the thing.

Same! I like both but I have a slight preference for the flat ones given the small distance between the keys that make it easier to do many things - including repositioning my fingers (F and J have a nub, but the spaces between the keys make repositioning easier, especially with nails)

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#264

Post by wyager »

jeffbee wrote: post #100
wyager wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 90% of companies, increasing software engineer productivity by just a few dozen bps is worth thousands of dollars a year. On top of a $4k laptop, $2k screens, etc. a $400 keyboard is totally reasonable. If your company won't let you get stuff like this they're probably being irrationally stingy.

I've been in this business a long time and the idea that we are limited by the typing speed of the programmer is just about the biggest crock I've heard so far. Thinking of the concrete details from Google's 2016 paper where they reported a gross commit rate of 1000 lines of code per engineer per week, inclusive of large-scale automatic refactoring and configuration changes that were 75% of the volume. That leaves yo…

"Net lines of code" has ~nothing to do with amount of time spent typing, and a good keyboard lets me type without wasting brain power on keyboard-related proprioception.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#266

Post by InternetPerson »

behnamoh wrote: post #242
holografix wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got a keychron at the office. No one bats an eye and it’s not like I pound the thing.

The fact that "no one bats an eye" doesn't mean they're not internally annoyed by the key sounds. In my office, there was this person who used a cheap noisy keyboard. It bothered us, for sure, but we didn't bring it up to his attention.

Yeah, like, I'm not going to ask anyone to use a different keyboard. I'm an adult, I can deal with it.

But I do think mechanical keyboards are way too loud, way overpriced, and way overhyped. (But that's just my opinion. I'm sure people would say the same thing about some of the stupid stuff that I'm into.)

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#267

Post by andrewzah »

BoorishBears wrote: post #210
comboy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My HHKB Hybrid Type-S is definitely less noisy than MX-Brown (at least in WASD keyboards edition). It may be more silent than my typing on macbook air, but it's hard to compare because it produces lower frequencies, definitely nicer sound than macbook keyboard to me and never even thought about it as noisy.

That's the exact HHKB I have and trust me, it's a noisy rattly mess compared to a good mech. Like just lightly glide your fingers across the keys and you should feel/hear the rattle. That same rattle continues as you type, it's just mixed in with the sound of bottoming out. For comparison, my mech is a solid feeling piece of aluminum, the keys have 0 wobble, and there are no rattles at all. It's night and day, I coul…

I also have a type-s hhkb with the silencing o-rings and I’ve never thought that it sounds noisy.

I’ve experimented with various keyboards but for me the sound and the action of the hhkb are my favorite. I just wish it had the layout of the Leopold FC660C.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#268

Post by bluGill »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #255
bayindirh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a bunch of old Sun Microsystems mechanical keyboards at the office, and they're not loud. I use a Cherry MX Brown equipped keyboard and it's not loud either. Does everyone use "Blue" switches over there? BTW, I don't believe mechanical keyboards are a fad. They're much better than the better rubber dome keyboards. Especially as they age.

Out of curiosity, have you done typing tests? I did once with some keyboards I was comparing. For me there was a difference. At least in the moment. It's possible I was just better on one because it was similar to what I had already been using.

Yes, not for speed by for quantity. My model m makes we want to type more.

You might not think that is a good thing. ..

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#269

Post by johnwalkr »

whalesalad wrote: post #99

I had a really fancy Topre keyboard. Had the fancy key caps, the acrylic dust cover, the whole nine yards. It made typing an absolute nightmare. I don't know why people want massive keys with massive amounts of travel. The slim Apple Magic keyboard (w/o numpad) is the best keyboard I have ever used.

I recently tried the latest one and while great, the late-2000s model (the one with 2 AA batteries) is my all-time favorite. It’s the one with the longest (but still very short compared to a mechanical keyboard) key travel. I realized this is my preference as my MacBook butterfly keyboard started to fail and I resorted to carrying my old keyboard with me. I decided to buy this model and its wired counterpart whenever I see one in good condition with my preferred keyboard layout. I’ve been using both for more than 10 years now and they have no issues but I’m happy to so far have 4 spares. Total cost of the spares was less than one of the latest magic keyboards. But I’ve noticed the price of used ones is starting to increase.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#270

Post by bikingbismuth »

Findecanor wrote: post #214
csdvrx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

Topre Realforce aren't really mechanical keyboards — they are rubber dome keyboards. They get lumped together with them only because they are high quality rubber domes, with a luxurious feel. I would best compare Topre to Key Tronic Lifetime and ErgoForce rubber dome keyboards from the '90s. Both those and Topre are full-travel, and have a distinct bottom-out feel, but they still require you to bottom out. They are a…

The MX Clear was the first switch I used that made me feel like I understood Mech keyboards. It eventually lead me to my current favorite switch the Zilent 67g.
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