Surely we shouldn't look at these subjects with blinders on. I'm sure the Soviet Union has done some evil deeds and killed scores of people in service of national zealotry, then tried to cover it up. But what global superpower hasn't? Realpolitik is an inevitable consequence of the modern world.
Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
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Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#12For Soviet-era black humor, it's hard to beat the 2017 movie The Death of Stalin .
It sort of reinforced the stereo types of how Stalin and his circle behaved. Stalin had psychopath traits, but what's shown in the film isn't remotely anything like how things may have happened.
I highly recommend Stephen Kotkin's new 3-volume biography of Stalin.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#13Surely we shouldn't look at these subjects with blinders on. I'm sure the Soviet Union has done some evil deeds and killed scores of people in service of national zealotry, then tried to cover it up. But what global superpower hasn't? Realpolitik is an inevitable consequence of the modern world.
The prisoner situation does seem somewhat dire, but whenever I read the Soviet Union imprisoned huge numbers of people I have to laugh when I recall American statistics and the horrific conditions in our prisons where we also use slave labor (the 13th Amendment's lone exception). One day not too far in the future people will read about us in the same hushed undertones. Or perhaps not, because my hope is the press of the future is able to improve and grapple with difficult subjects instead of parroting McCarthite dogma.
For what it's worth Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman was one of my favorite books growing up. It was kind of a shock when Wellerstein drew attention how the humor compared to what they were doing. He's right, it is kind of grim.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#14Surely we shouldn't look at these subjects with blinders on. I'm sure the Soviet Union has done some evil deeds and killed scores of people in service of national zealotry, then tried to cover it up. But what global superpower hasn't? Realpolitik is an inevitable consequence of the modern world.
"scores of people"? You should read Gulag Archipelago.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#15Beria really was in charge of the early Soviet nuclear weapons program, and, while everyone was terrified of him, he was apparently good at managing the program. The classic joke about that, and it may not have been a joke, is that after the first bomb worked, the people who would have been shot if it failed got the Hero of the Soviet Union award. The ones that would have been sent to a labor camp got some lesser awa…
" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.
You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions.
A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding.
So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#16> Some of the stories are more in the line of “hooray for Soviet scientists” genre, which I find a lot less interesting I find this very telling about the reviewer. When the Russians (or Soviets) show gallows humor, or are simply bizarre or we (in the West) want to read dark undertones in what they wrote: hell yes, it's just like I thought, the Soviet Union must have been a constant nightmare! When they write in a se…
I think he’s just saying that self-congratulatory stuff, from any source, is expected and unenlightening.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#17I ask people who say they don't belive in hell whether they have heard and understand the Russian sense of humor, as when you do, there's no other place it could have come from. na zdarovye my friends!
Joking about the annhialiation of cities of people, and potentially the species, is dark - but to call it merely "problematic" as though there were some solution to said problem instead of recognizing the existential horror it represented through humor, seems like an ambitious use of the word. There are some things only the involuntary reaction of humor can express.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
" he was apparently good at managing the program." That's one thing a lot of people don't understand. A lot of these monsters aren't just monsters but they are also very capable. Beria was a good manager, so was Himmler who led the Nazi SS. Stalin also was a hard worker and a master bureaucrat.
You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.
I would also say not to underestimate the effort required to be in the position where you are making the threats rather than on the receiving end. A rise to that position also includes effectively managing your rivals into oblivion.
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#19Me favorite Beria quote is:
Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.
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https://www.oxfordeagle.com/2018/05/09/show-me-the-man-and-i...
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Unfortunately we have a similar set up here as well:
Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent
https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp...
Re: Surely you're joking, Comrade Beria
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are underestimating how effective a "management" technique is demonstrating that you can shoot underperforming minions. A lot of that "management" was simply terrorizing people to do your bidding. So, no, he most likely wasn't a good manager the same way a bank robber isn't showing "good interpersonal skills" because he was able to convince all patrons to sit by the wall and employees to open the vault.
I would also say not to underestimate the effort required to be in the position where you are making the threats rather than on the receiving end. A rise to that position also includes effectively managing your rivals into oblivion.
Of course. I assume it was honest, full time job. And a lot of overtime, possibly.
He had to be good at something to get so far. I am just arguing that it is difficult to call it "management".