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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#191

Post by wwalexander »

csdvrx wrote: post #77
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

There are mechanical keyboards that are lower profile. I felt the same as you with my old Filco Majestouch-2 with MX Blues, but switched to a Logitech G915 with MX Browns and enjoy it a lot more.

The key travel is still the same, but I found that having the tops of the keys closer to the desk surface made it a lot less straining.

I also recommend a desk chair that lets your forearms rest so that your wrists are parallel with and just slightly above the desk surface, so that your fingers are sort of pecking down (L shape) instead of curled (J shape). For any keyboard, but it matters more the taller the keyboard.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#192

Post by [deleted] »

captn3m0 wrote: post #91
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I switch between Cherry Browns and Topre (Leopold 660) and my Topres are much quieter. I prefer them for office calls, as a result

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#193

Post by gonehome »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #125
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I worked at a company that gave people generous leeway to purchase computer gear they wanted. We already had good computers and monitors, so fancy mechanical keyboards were the #1 purchase for most people. The mechanical keyboard fans nerded out over different switches and other hardware, spending countless hours doing research and trying out different types of keys. And then slowly nearly everyone went back to regul…

I have an HHKB, but I think it's mostly fun (and I guess fashion?)

It's fun to nerd out about tools and play with them. There aren't a lot of ways you can customize standard hardware and keyboards are an easy case for all sorts of little things, different colors, etc. and you use it all of the time.

I don't think a lot of the details around key types matter in any serious way, but it's a fun computer related peripheral to play with.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#194

Post by [deleted] »

polack wrote: post #135
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

My MX-brown keyboard is definitely louder than my standard HHKB2, even though the MX got after market dampeners installed. Estimate about double the noise from the MX so surprising to hear you had the opposite experience.

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#195

Post by MrApathy »

formerly_proven wrote: post #45

The notion that a capacitive switch is somehow expensive to manufacture because the PCB is allegedly "special" (doubt) seems odd to me. All other capacitive sensing stuff uses bog-standard PCBs with nothing special about them at all and it's not like the rubberdome is hard to manufacture either (considering that a more complex kind of rubberdome mat is the centerpiece in cheap rubberdome membrane keyboards). And then…

Re: "Rigorous Japanese Quality Standards," earlier this year I ordered a Leopold FC980C. It arrived with a warped case that would not lay flat on my desk (tested on multiple surfaces to make sure the problem wasn't with my desk).

So much for legendary QA.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#196

Post by AceyMan »

wyager wrote: post #27
darrylb42 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of enterprise buy these? I have only experienced enterprises buying the default keyboards that come with machines. $5 Dell specials.

For 90% of companies, increasing software engineer productivity by just a few dozen bps is worth thousands of dollars a year. On top of a $4k laptop, $2k screens, etc. a $400 keyboard is totally reasonable. If your company won't let you get stuff like this they're probably being irrationally stingy.

This reminds me of my amazement to learn from the YT teardown movement (AvE, etc) that professional tradesmen often consider a topline Makita or Dewalt cordless tool to be good to go for one job (e.g.,a single commercial high-rise building) and after that, it's time to get (aka, bill for) a new one.

I believe software folks could take some cues from that practice.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#197

Post by satysin »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #125
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I worked at a company that gave people generous leeway to purchase computer gear they wanted. We already had good computers and monitors, so fancy mechanical keyboards were the #1 purchase for most people. The mechanical keyboard fans nerded out over different switches and other hardware, spending countless hours doing research and trying out different types of keys. And then slowly nearly everyone went back to regul…

You describe me quite well too :)

I tried dozens of switches, key caps and layouts over the years. Soldering my own switches, trying different materials to soften the sound for the perfect “thocc”

It was/is a fun hobby but over time I grew out of it and now I am happy with a simple low profile keyboard.

My favourites (in no particular order) are: Apple Magic Keyboard with Numpad, Microsoft Surface keyboards, and the Logitech MX Keys.

I also used to really like the old Microsoft natural keyboards many, many years ago

Interestingly (to me anyway) is that even though I am British I have grown to prefer a US (ANSI) layout over an ISO layout. Not really sure why though if I am honest.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#198

Post by petepete »

jagger27 wrote: post #139
petepete wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was easier to buy keyboards with a correctly-positioned control key.

That’s the beauty of custom keycaps and boards with customizable firmware! Almost every premium GMK, ePBT, etc. keycap set will come with a Caps Lock replacement key labeled Control. It’s lovely.

So I just googled to see if my keyboard (Realforce 88u) has customisable firmware and apparently it has internal dip switches to configure the behaviour of ctrl and Windows keys!

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#199

Post by allenu »

nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I’m with you. I bought the HHKB and thought I’d love it but I didn’t. I also found the keys too “heavy” but I did buy the quieter model, so it never felt loud to me. I have gone back to an old cherry brown switch keyboard and have preferred it.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#200

Post by satysin »

fomine3 wrote: post #157
formerly_proven wrote: post #45

The notion that a capacitive switch is somehow expensive to manufacture because the PCB is allegedly "special" (doubt) seems odd to me. All other capacitive sensing stuff uses bog-standard PCBs with nothing special about them at all and it's not like the rubberdome is hard to manufacture either (considering that a more complex kind of rubberdome mat is the centerpiece in cheap rubberdome membrane keyboards). And then…

Topre is very rock solid because of its origin is for professional inputter. I know many people use same RealForce/HHKB for 10 years (in Japan).

Is ten years really that old for a keyboard?

My father still uses a generic Dell keyboard he got with a PC in 2002 because he didn’t like all the media keys on the keyboards that came with new computers.

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