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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#171

Post by fomine3 »

CarVac wrote: post #93

As someone with a Topre Realforce and a reproduction Model F capacitive buckling spring, I say that layout matters much more and I use a fully custom ergonomic keyboard (Mitosis layout but not split) with Kailh Box Navy switches, which are good enough. I'm still faster on buckling spring or Topre though, despite daily driving the ergo. Their lighter force and deeper stroke (4mm versus 3.5 for the Kailhs) just are bet…

This is why I leave Realforce. Splitting is far more important than switch preference for me. Then I'm in journey to find best switch,

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#172

Post by archarios »

csdvrx wrote: post #77
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

You don't seem to understand that you don't need to bottom out your switches to actuate them. I have Kailh Copper switches which barely require me to push them down very far in order to actuate. Also they're pretty quiet. You can have your preferences, but blanketly saying that all mech keyboards "require too much strength" and are "loud" is wrong. The "expensive" part isn't even true in all cases.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#173

Post by csdvrx »

simonblack wrote: post #160
csdvrx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much!! I've tried my best to like mechanical keyboards... but no, I hate them. The noise is distracting, they require too much strength on every key, and they are big and expansive! I thought I might have the wrong keytypes, so I even purchased key testers: the red keys are less noisy, but that doesn't solve the other problems. So I just can't find a reason to like them. My favorite keyboard is the Thinkpa…

(why can't they make smaller mice??) People do make smaller mice. But the downside is that they are generally cheapies, and not very robust. I have bought several over the years from supermarkets when I found I'd left my usual mouse behind. When it comes to left-handed mice, it's often easier to obtain a symmetrical mouse, and change its handidness in software. I use my mice so much that I have a problem with wireles…

> People do make smaller mice. But the downside is that they are generally cheapies, and not very robust

The last mouse I had was a white Apple Magic Mouse: still a bit on the large side, yet much smaller than the Logitech G600.

But multitouch is not as good as 12 dedicated keys for shortcuts!

> When it comes to left-handed mice, it's often easier to obtain a symmetrical mouse, and change its handidness in software

Symmetrical could do, but then I'd miss the 12 keys right by my thumb!

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#174

Post by Oddskar »

twhb wrote: post #161

The mechanical keyboard community is unfortunately really toxic. In addition to second hand accounts, I have a friend who’s a newbie in it who I encouraged to talk to people to get her bearings, and there was a basically unanimous chorus of “fuck off, until you have something to offer us you’re just a waste of time”. I think it’s partially because it’s largely gamers, and partially because it’s largely about perceive…

I think it depends on where you hang out. A lot of the DIY mechanical keyboard Discord communities are tremendously helpful and open to newcomers for instance.

On the flipside of that is perhaps the geekhack forums, with a ton of elitists that sometimes have little patience for people that are not up to speed.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#175

Post by archarios »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #125
nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

I worked at a company that gave people generous leeway to purchase computer gear they wanted. We already had good computers and monitors, so fancy mechanical keyboards were the #1 purchase for most people. The mechanical keyboard fans nerded out over different switches and other hardware, spending countless hours doing research and trying out different types of keys. And then slowly nearly everyone went back to regul…

But.. they are objectively superior. Not everyone needs them. But they are better in many ways.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#176

Post by archarios »

basedbertram wrote: post #81
InternetPerson wrote: post #67

For me, one nice thing about working from home all the time now is that I don't have to listen to everyone's annoyingly loud mechanical keyboards. I kinda hope this fad dies before I have to work in an office again...

Oh wow, do people really bring mechanical keyboards to the office? I thought that was generally considered a no-no.

Mechanical != loud.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#177

Post by fomine3 »

lvl100 wrote: post #90

This is not well researched and written. There are many cheap EC keyboards out there. The price premium is due to cult following that predates the recent trend in mechanical keyboards.

Realforce is expensive from the beginning because it designed for professional. Its early consumer model in 2005 costs about 20k JPY and latest model costs from 18k JPY. (Since there's little inflation so it can be compared)

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#178

Post by Ekaros »

rp1 wrote: post #47
germinalphrase wrote: post #26

Can anyone recommend an entry level mechanical keyboard specifically for extended typing (as opposed to gaming)? Or, at least, specific features/qualities to seek out.

The Filco Majestouch 2 is a great keyboard. This is an older model, and it existed before the mech keyboard craze took off. Mine was sitting in the closet collecting dust having long ago been replaced by "fancier" keyboards with esoteric switches and other random features. Using it for the first time after a long hiatus was an "aha" moment. The typing experience was so much nicer. Upon reflection, here is why: 1. Pla…

I'm pretty sure Majestouch has metal blackplate. Not sure if they changed it with 2. Not that it really matters. It's reasonable still.

Still, I also recommend Filco, not cheapest but it has taken years of my abuse... Including liquid and poor soldering jobs for swapping switches.

Bought Minila Air as well. Which I have been quite happy to use recently. Maybe need to order second MX Brown board as wireless one...

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#179

Post by jeffbee »

jrockway wrote: post #150
jeffbee wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in this business a long time and the idea that we are limited by the typing speed of the programmer is just about the biggest crock I've heard so far. Thinking of the concrete details from Google's 2016 paper where they reported a gross commit rate of 1000 lines of code per engineer per week, inclusive of large-scale automatic refactoring and configuration changes that were 75% of the volume. That leaves yo…

I'm limited by typing speed. I can type about 120 words per minute, but there are still times when my idea is not instantly conveyed to the computer. In that case, I'm forgetting new ideas while interfacing with a piece of machinery. 1000 lines of code per engineer per week is probably a factor here. Think about a flow where you're bottlenecked by typing something. You then don't finish the thing because you have a s…

I think an honest evaluation would reveal that the interrupted program and the forgotten ideas stood even chances of being of negative value anyway. Getting the programmer away from the keyboard is an organizational defense mechanism.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#180

Post by foxfluff »

fnord77 wrote: post #61

I know this is sacrilege, but my all time favorite keyboard key switch for programming is whatever they have inside the logitech K750 solar. I've tried them all. I even have a "tester" with a matrix of dozens of different key switches. Kailh Box White is my second fav

Interesting about the box white. I haven't heard many people praise them. They sound fun but then people move on.

I thought I liked them when I first got them but after two years of daily use, I gotta say they're not for me. I'm clearly slower and making more typos than e.g. with MX browns. Next keyb is probably going to be low profile reds.

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