why does the local council not employ people to clean the streets?
They do a pretty good job in the areas where there are tourists and businesses in all but the busiest times. No so much in residential areas.
Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
21–30 of 133 posts
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Singapore generally has very clean streets, but the price is very high fines. I like the idea of a $1000 fine or community service spent cleaning up trash.
I'm not convinced that a fine is going to change someone's behavior. It may put them in a regretful financial bind, but it's really a short-term pain. Spending a week cleaning trash is definitely something they will remember! (and for sure they will complain to friends and family who will then maybe be less likely to litter themselves)
I feel like a $1000 fee would be something most people would remember and complain about to friends and family...
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#23I was a Patreon supporter of Clean Streets and was pleased with having cleaner streets in my neighborhood. Unfortunately, these guys just closed shop. Here is the email I received on Oct 23:
> Alas, Clean Streets is closing up shop.
> You may have noticed the falloff in times and quality the past couple weeks. [Redacted name] lost his main cleaner and has not been able to adequately replace him.
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not going to stop a junkie from shooting up (without a comprehensive, life-changing program). So barring that, you might as well teach them how to be more safe so they don't end up in a hospital spending your tax money for emergency care... or worse, dead somewhere and likewise then consuming public funds to deal with it. [added] Since this is such a controversial topic, I would recommend reading about Portuga…
You can stop a junkie from shooting up by imprisoning them, or better yet, putting them through drug rehab. Everything else is not a solution and only exacerbates the problem. There's nothing safe about staying addicted to drugs.
Wait until you find out about drug abuse in prisons.
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is a city that puts up billboards telling junkies how to "safely" shoot up heroin
You're not going to stop a junkie from shooting up (without a comprehensive, life-changing program). So barring that, you might as well teach them how to be more safe so they don't end up in a hospital spending your tax money for emergency care... or worse, dead somewhere and likewise then consuming public funds to deal with it. [added] Since this is such a controversial topic, I would recommend reading about Portuga…
but it also sends the message that shooting up heroin is tolerated, even encouraged. it's like the people running the city have completely giving up on expecting any kind of standards of public decency or even upholding civilization itself. they gave up on collecting trash, they gave up on arresting thieves, they gave up building houses, they're considering whether to give up teaching calculus. nothing we can do! we'll just manage the decline into thirdworldization, be careful not to overdose while you drug yourself into a stupor.
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#26I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…
> throwing trash on the ground
This is only part of the issue. I've been picking up trash for years while walking or hiking in the outdoors and have observed a lot of different situations and setups that are really common:
- Pocket design on clothing isn't designed to allow easy litter insertion, exactly. A lot falls out of coats, jogging pouches when people think it's secure. Open wrappers from things like candy or granola bars have this banana-peel splaying effect that can help them to practically leap out of pockets while being stuffed in.
- Animals like local corvidae can spread litter like crazy.
- Wind, especially on garbage collection day, or around outdoor events
- Some hilarious amount of litter is meant to stay there because someone really does intend to come back and get it later. From water bottles left by runners to legit trash left by well-meaning people who really will be back soon, and then feel angry and confused about how they are perceived when they find that another do-gooder picked it up
- Vehicles, from garbage trucks to other work vehicles headed from site to site...man, some of the trash vortices I've seen :D
The inexcusable people you mentioned, I guess, are easy to spot and often easy to clean up after because they'll put their trash in the bag before hucking it out the car window, so you can use their bag to hold other trash as well. Or at least it's thrown in the same general area, and amounts to a couple bottles.
If they are drunk/high you can often get their names and stuff really easy too. Starbucks cup, receipt...wallet...oops they forgot that lol. Stage a gentle community intervention if so inclined, nobody necessarily needs the police involved.
But emotionally if someone has just had it with rules and abuse of rule systems for control purposes, if they perceive that they have been unfairly treated by society, I find that those are the litter bugs people worry about. But I can also sympathize...
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#27I just don't understand why throwing trash on the ground is tolerated. There is virtually no argument for why someone should need or be allowed to throw or leave their trash on the ground. Most of us manage to get clothes on before we leave the house each day, and that's a lot more complicated than just putting trash into a bin (or god forbid, carrying it until you reach a destination which has a trash bin). So there…
Are the people littering mostly civilians or drug addicts?
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is a city that puts up billboards telling junkies how to "safely" shoot up heroin
You're not going to stop a junkie from shooting up (without a comprehensive, life-changing program). So barring that, you might as well teach them how to be more safe so they don't end up in a hospital spending your tax money for emergency care... or worse, dead somewhere and likewise then consuming public funds to deal with it. [added] Since this is such a controversial topic, I would recommend reading about Portuga…
Would allowing nature to take its course and having them die really be that bad? It is better for society for them to not exist (in a peaceful manner ie not outright jailing/ worse) or for them to exist and harass innocent bystanders? Think about it this way, if they did not exist, and you had the power to create them, would would willingly/ purposefully create them? They are taking up resource that could be better spent else where such as investing in education or infrastructure or even tax breaks for the middle class
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not going to stop a junkie from shooting up (without a comprehensive, life-changing program). So barring that, you might as well teach them how to be more safe so they don't end up in a hospital spending your tax money for emergency care... or worse, dead somewhere and likewise then consuming public funds to deal with it. [added] Since this is such a controversial topic, I would recommend reading about Portuga…
You can stop a junkie from shooting up by imprisoning them, or better yet, putting them through drug rehab. Everything else is not a solution and only exacerbates the problem. There's nothing safe about staying addicted to drugs.
Putting a junkie in prison will indeed stop them, for the time they are in jail. But once they get out, they will return to the life they know. And then you're back with the original problem, but you've now also spent a ton of money to imprison them.
Obviously there's nothing safe about being addicted to drugs. But there are certainly methods of drug use which have wildly varied risk levels. Same for other things - drinking alcohol, eating unhealthy foods, etc.
Portugal is the best example of how to tackle the drug problem. There are many articles, but here's one: https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po...
Re: Clean Streets: People taking San Francisco’s trash into their own hands
#30In Taiwan the locals, usually the elderly, sweep and clean near their own houses or the parks where they congregate. Some do it as part of a neighborhood group, while others clean parks and areas near temples for religious reasons. Good way to build community. On another note, let people read without pop-ups please.
I used to clean up near my front door, but it became overwhelming.
I live in a "bad" part of SF, by choice - I have a huge, cheap apartment. Until about 5 or so years ago, the homeless situation was not that bad around me. There would be periods where people with problems would be around, but generally it wasn't a big deal. I'd clean up around my and my downstairs neighbor's doors, and a bit wider if needed. Some of the folks that used to live on the street here would also help keep things clean.
Then the cops decided we are good place to funnel campers. Inevitably, dealers followed, and the street went to hell.
I won't go in to all the ins and outs, I can become very boring on this topic. Suffice to say, when you have a local small business that considers piles of garbage a competitive advantage, sweeping out my bit of sidewalk became pointless.