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80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

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Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#121

Post by rasz »

StillBored wrote: post #110
rasz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

386DX40 was somewhere between 486SX16 and 20 when running 32bit code. Both 386DX and 386SX executed 16bit code at very similar speed to 286 clock for clock. 486 arch as a straight up x2 speed increase. https://dependency-injection.com/the-slowest-486-vs-fastest-... I have old 1994 catalogs listing AMD 386DX40 + motherboard (128KB cache) combo at a price point of three 1MB simm sticks, or one Intel 486DX25 processor,…

So, I was there and made this purchasing decision too. And if you remove doom from the benchmarks you linked it matches what I remember. Which is that the AMD 386-40's where faster in pretty much all cases than the Intel 486SX-20's. They were also slightly cheaper at the time. And that fact gave me a terrible time deciding which one to buy, but in the end I got the 486 because it had two huge advantages. The first be…

>slightly cheaper

Start of 1994 oem component prices:

    386SX40, 0 cache motherboard ~$70 (mainly due to super cheap mobo)
    386DX40, 128Kb cache motherboard ~$140
    1MB 30pin simm ~$40
    512KB SVGA ~$35
    
    486SX20 CPU ~$150
    486 VLB motherboard ~$150
    486DX33, VLB motherboard ~$450
    486DX2/66, VLB motherboard ~$650
    486DX2/66, PCI motherboard ~$850
    4MB 72pin simm ~$170
    1MB ET4000/S3C805/CL5428 VLB card ~$150
    2MV VLB card with 2D windows acceleration ~$300
Jump from 386 to the cheapest 486 was x2 the cost of main components, ~$200-300.

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#122

Post by jasomill »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #115
jonathanlydall wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only about 25 years too late :D, but that would have been cool to know about. It does make me think though about how I might have discovered such a thing at that point in time. I don't think I even had internet at home then, I never used things like a BBS and later I was never big into forums either. So the only way I really learnt things was either through fiddling (which is how I found out about the parallel cable…

> I guess I could have tried computing magazines Here are some offline methods other people used to get such information: 1. magazines and "zines" 2. books 3. word-of-mouth (as you said) 4. clubs or meet-ups Online methods that pre-date google: 1. newsgroups (usenet) 2. yahoo groups 3. bbses 4. forums 5. msdn 6. other search engines, even ones that used categories like yahoo were sometimes effective. It just took lon…

Additionally, when available, information was frequently of higher quality than is readily available online.

Even today, it's probably easier to find detailed, accurate technical documentation for OpenVMS and z/OS — where developers can't just be expected to "Google it" — than it is for Windows, Linux, or Apple OSes.

Moreover, pre-Internet, I never encountered a scenario where important documentation was only available in video form. At worst, you'd very rarely see consumer products bundled with a videocassette for users who couldn't be bothered to RTFM.

Sharing information is certainly easier today, as magazines, user group memberships, long-distance BBS calls, and in-person conferences present a far more significant barrier to entry than the Web.

The trend seems to be reversing, however, as more and more information once available over the Web now seems to be siloed in systems like Facebook and Discord that are neither searchable via Google nor regularly archived by the Internet Archive.

What I wouldn't give for a "Usenet 2.0", i.e., a widely-used, persistent, open, distributed discussion system to reverse this trend.

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#123

Post by a9h74j »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #115
jonathanlydall wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only about 25 years too late :D, but that would have been cool to know about. It does make me think though about how I might have discovered such a thing at that point in time. I don't think I even had internet at home then, I never used things like a BBS and later I was never big into forums either. So the only way I really learnt things was either through fiddling (which is how I found out about the parallel cable…

> I guess I could have tried computing magazines Here are some offline methods other people used to get such information: 1. magazines and "zines" 2. books 3. word-of-mouth (as you said) 4. clubs or meet-ups Online methods that pre-date google: 1. newsgroups (usenet) 2. yahoo groups 3. bbses 4. forums 5. msdn 6. other search engines, even ones that used categories like yahoo were sometimes effective. It just took lon…

Anyone for the former Bits and Bytes bookstore in Naperville?

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#124

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how complacent we get. Two times every day I duck under an electric gate that's fed by a 10kV (might be higher) low-impedance charger. Been doing it this way for years. Then a few days ago, ducking under it as usual, I happened to be on a slightly higher part of the ground and my back touched it as I was wearing wet, muddy boots. And I was instantly reminded why the horses have learned to not get too clo…

Those can really whack you when conditions are humid. There is a pretty funny - and very obvious - dumb thing that almost every male that lives in a rural area seems to have to experience all by themselves at least once during their young lives. You don't quite realize how dumb you can be until that happens and then afterwards you will have a much more accurate idea of where you are on the intelligence scale.

> dumb thing that almost every male that lives in a rural area

Maybe I'm lucky that I didn't grow up in a rural area :-)

Managed to get one boy out the house without him doing it (that I know of!). Hope the younger one is at least as smart!

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#125

Post by jacquesm »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #124
jacquesm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can really whack you when conditions are humid. There is a pretty funny - and very obvious - dumb thing that almost every male that lives in a rural area seems to have to experience all by themselves at least once during their young lives. You don't quite realize how dumb you can be until that happens and then afterwards you will have a much more accurate idea of where you are on the intelligence scale.

> dumb thing that almost every male that lives in a rural area Maybe I'm lucky that I didn't grow up in a rural area :-) Managed to get one boy out the house without him doing it (that I know of!). Hope the younger one is at least as smart!

I still feel so incredibly stupid about this because it's not as if I didn't know... but it won't happen again. I think.

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#126

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

StillBored wrote: post #110
rasz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

386DX40 was somewhere between 486SX16 and 20 when running 32bit code. Both 386DX and 386SX executed 16bit code at very similar speed to 286 clock for clock. 486 arch as a straight up x2 speed increase. https://dependency-injection.com/the-slowest-486-vs-fastest-... I have old 1994 catalogs listing AMD 386DX40 + motherboard (128KB cache) combo at a price point of three 1MB simm sticks, or one Intel 486DX25 processor,…

So, I was there and made this purchasing decision too. And if you remove doom from the benchmarks you linked it matches what I remember. Which is that the AMD 386-40's where faster in pretty much all cases than the Intel 486SX-20's. They were also slightly cheaper at the time. And that fact gave me a terrible time deciding which one to buy, but in the end I got the 486 because it had two huge advantages. The first be…

MRBIOS was great. I flashed that onto a Pentium board (Elitegroup IIRC) and it even had an option for serial console!

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#127

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

123pie123 wrote: post #47

These things remind me of one of my first jobs as a bench engineer 'trying' to fix PCs the vast majority of problems back then was the power supply and the vast majority of the issues with power supplies was burned out capacitors - easily fixable. for some bizaar reason one memory that also sticks out was the painful compatibility issues of putting seagate hard disks together with conner hard disks (IDE cables) also…

> everyone was scared of opening monitors

Lol. I repaired them while running/being on and made them shine again!

Without having a real clue, just looking into them, and turning things with improvised tools this way and that way, until it worked.

Thereby getting some clue about how they worked, and were fixable :-)

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#128

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

unixhero wrote: post #50
123pie123 wrote: post #47

These things remind me of one of my first jobs as a bench engineer 'trying' to fix PCs the vast majority of problems back then was the power supply and the vast majority of the issues with power supplies was burned out capacitors - easily fixable. for some bizaar reason one memory that also sticks out was the painful compatibility issues of putting seagate hard disks together with conner hard disks (IDE cables) also…

Good story! Everyone were correct about being afraid of opening CRT monitors. Repairing them is a whole other domain than PC electronics. A CRT ZAP from the cathode ray components can kill. That is not a place one should poke around trying to find solutions.

Pffft...

Re: 80386DX ISA single board microcomputer

#130

Post by mrlonglong »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #87
jacquesm wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And instantly a lot smarter!

It's amazing how complacent we get. Two times every day I duck under an electric gate that's fed by a 10kV (might be higher) low-impedance charger. Been doing it this way for years. Then a few days ago, ducking under it as usual, I happened to be on a slightly higher part of the ground and my back touched it as I was wearing wet, muddy boots. And I was instantly reminded why the horses have learned to not get too clo…

I have accidentally zapped my gonads whilst stepping over an electric fence. Trust me, you definitely don't ever want to do that unless you're into that sort of thing!
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