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Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

switchandclick.com

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Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#131

Post by bullen »

I had used HHKB Pro 2 for 10 years and I wouldn't switch to anything else ever, so I bought 3x HHKB JP when I last went to Japan in 2013 (to get the arrow keys and have the same keyboard everywhere/for backup) and I have been programming on those ever since (even if the Japaneese layout is slightly worse than US for programming: http://mouth.rupy.se/keyboard.html).

But last month I bought this: https://kbdfans.com/products/fully-assembled-60-plastic-mech... just to try something else, and it's plesant but pretty far from a HHKB! Also for some strange reason the shift/ctrl buttons don't work with Java Minecraft on linux! Go figure, probably some odd LWJGL + TWM bug?

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#132

Post by cevn »

aenis wrote: post #110

Long time Topre user here. I have four of those now, had a few more over the years. The best for me is the 45gr uniformly weighted realforce pfu ltd - which allows, with a keypress, to change the actuation point. More shallow for gaming, deeper for typing. One thing I cant agree with is the claim of superior QC. I had to RMA one due to faulty pcb - pressing Num Lock would cause all the leds to light up, and had anoth…

Haha, we're using the same keyboard. This one is pretty nice. Strange that you had quality issues tho, first I've heard with Topre.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#133

Post by Pmop »

I happen to own a Topre keyboard: Leopold FC660C, the silent version.

I don't think it's expensive or a luxury item at all. If you indulge in mechanical keyboards with switches, your expenditures can easily go beyond $250 price tag: you buy expensive, special, limited supply switches because most switches are shit, and then you have to lube all of those or pay someone else to do it because otherwise it feels and sound like shit, then you have to buy a good case and plate because otherwise it sounds shit. Plus trad switches really don't like dust. I bought my FC660C and never did anything else, it works great, it feels great, it looks great, all by default, and it's dust proof.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#134

Post by jagger27 »

germinalphrase wrote: post #26

Can anyone recommend an entry level mechanical keyboard specifically for extended typing (as opposed to gaming)? Or, at least, specific features/qualities to seek out.

I’d avoid WASD and go for a Keychron Q2 because the firmware is customizable and open source. It also has hotswappable switches if you want to change things up or try different switches at some point. It’s very reasonably priced in my opinion.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#135

Post by polack »

nicopappl wrote: post #49

I have the privilege of owning a Happy Hacking 2, it has topre keys. I used it for about a year. And I hated it! It's insanely noisy, to the point of distraction. It's so damn loud. But the dealbreaker for me is how heavy and deep the keys are. It's just too much energy and travel time for efficient typing IMO. After long sessions my fingertips felt sore from the blunt damage of pushing down the keys. But I'll recogn…

My MX-brown keyboard is definitely louder than my standard HHKB2, even though the MX got after market dampeners installed. Estimate about double the noise from the MX so surprising to hear you had the opposite experience.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#136

Post by clon »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #112
clon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the same sentiment. My yearlong experiment to try to love mechanical keyboards left me with a thousand euro hole in my wallet and physical problems spanning from fingers to upper body musculature. I loved the tactile feel, but hated what they did to my body. I think mechanical keyboards are just too high, with excessive travel. You sort of have to keep your hands floating in the air, which transfers stress to…

>Second issue, perhaps I'm a poor typist, but my fingertips frequently got stuck between the keys, causing mistakes by triggering adjacent keys. This is a new one on me. I have never heard of this happening to anyone. My recommendation for you would get a low profile mechanical keyboard like the Keychron K3 or Logitech G915

To be clear, I did not mean that my fingers are caught between the keys. More like I often felt like I'm hitting keycaps sideways. I could not always discipline myself to operate the keyboard like a 1970s typist. This was very distracting and caused errors. Probably I bottomed out too much, instead of just breaking the click? I'm sure there's technique that can be mastered.

I guess I'm a slimline keyboard person and thanks for the recommendation. Perhaps I will try a mechanical slim as well, to fully close this experiment. For the moment I enjoy just getting some work done on the MX Keys, it is an absolute delight. Can't say enough good things about it.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#137

Post by creamytaco »

eertami wrote: post #69
rp1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Filco Majestouch 2 is a great keyboard. This is an older model, and it existed before the mech keyboard craze took off. Mine was sitting in the closet collecting dust having long ago been replaced by "fancier" keyboards with esoteric switches and other random features. Using it for the first time after a long hiatus was an "aha" moment. The typing experience was so much nicer. Upon reflection, here is why: 1. Pla…

Just to add a fifth point: Lifespan. I'm typing this on a Majestouch that I've owned for more than 10 years. I've had to replace the keycaps twice now due to wear, but the keyboard still works perfectly and feels as new. It's certainly the oldest piece of technology in my office. I've typed on newer fancier keyboards (and have a 60% for travel), but the Majestouch is still my favourite.

I've used a Japanese Topre daily for 10 years, didn't replace anything and it still works and feels like new.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#138

Post by jagger27 »

jeffbee wrote: post #100
wyager wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 90% of companies, increasing software engineer productivity by just a few dozen bps is worth thousands of dollars a year. On top of a $4k laptop, $2k screens, etc. a $400 keyboard is totally reasonable. If your company won't let you get stuff like this they're probably being irrationally stingy.

I've been in this business a long time and the idea that we are limited by the typing speed of the programmer is just about the biggest crock I've heard so far. Thinking of the concrete details from Google's 2016 paper where they reported a gross commit rate of 1000 lines of code per engineer per week, inclusive of large-scale automatic refactoring and configuration changes that were 75% of the volume. That leaves yo…

I type faster on a MacBook keyboard but I prefer to type on my horrifyingly expensive mechanical keyboards. It’s about comfort above all else.

The real crock is to not buy your employees nice equipment.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#139

Post by jagger27 »

petepete wrote: post #68
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HHKB is amazing for vim programming.

I wish it was easier to buy keyboards with a correctly-positioned control key.

That’s the beauty of custom keycaps and boards with customizable firmware! Almost every premium GMK, ePBT, etc. keycap set will come with a Caps Lock replacement key labeled Control. It’s lovely.

Re: Why Are Topre Keyboards So Expensive?

#140

Post by csdvrx »

Pmop wrote: post #133

I happen to own a Topre keyboard: Leopold FC660C, the silent version. I don't think it's expensive or a luxury item at all. If you indulge in mechanical keyboards with switches, your expenditures can easily go beyond $250 price tag: you buy expensive, special, limited supply switches because most switches are shit, and then you have to lube all of those or pay someone else to do it because otherwise it feels and soun…

> I don't think it's expensive or a luxury item at all.

It's elite/niche so it costs more that regular things you can get off ebay.

I got my last TrackPoint Keyboard II Bluetooth 4Y40X49493 openbox (like new) for $40 shipped. It's silent, battery powered, slim, travels with me all the time.

At this pricepoint, I've a few similar ones, for when I need (say to use with my tablet) - quantity has a quality all its own

> or pay someone else to do it because otherwise it feels and sound like shit

I didn't waste more than a minute when I removed my $40 Thinkpad keyboard from its box.

> it works great, it feels great, it looks great, all by default.

Same, but how much did you pay? And how reasonable is it to get one for your tablet, and another one you'll leave in your car?

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