Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#181

Post by nverno » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

secondaryacct wrote: post #2

I'd be curious how they define race. Do they have a rule book with color pigment density, size of external attributes and maybe even a grading scale of good to bad "diversity factor"? I find it more disturbing they consider diversity on a pseudo scientific race definition than the supposed lack of diversity. What if in those they call white, many are women, many are young or old, fulltime or partime, idealists or pra…

I think of race as an ideology- different groups seem to have roughly similar views about it when they have shared history- it's a social construct, so it's difficult/impossible to really convey to other people what it means to someone. For example, the concepts of white/black races seem to have originated in the US somewhere around 1700 [1], and are noticeably absent from older writings.

For some people, skin color is as meaningless as eye color, but for others everything is viewed through the lens of race, so it has the added difficulty that its meaning is context dependent. The racial jargon is often so amorphous, it's impossible to interpret literally.

1. https://www.amazon.com/Birth-White-Nation-Invention-Relevanc...

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#182

Post by Jensson » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #141

rayiner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared to programming and tech, success in a lot of fields in the humanities, including journalism is far more connected to who you know, what family you were born into, what college you went to, and your overall personal network. In such an environment, it is unsurprising that there is a severe lack of diversity. This is one of my concerns about the recent antipathy toward standardized testing. My family came ov…

When you are privileged you have no extra weight or leg up over someone else on standardized tests. That’s why it is the privileged elite who decry tests and call for “diversity.” Under the guise and mask of diversity they try to maintain and entrench their privilege while giving the occasional breadcrumbs to the truly historically disadvantaged. I can’t for the life of me understand how the daughter of Bill Gates is…

Privileged white people who wants to preserve their privilege says that the poor white people are the problem and then kick those out in favor of black people. But the privileged white people are still there. And people wonder why poor white people don't like all of this "diversity" rethoric.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#183

Post by truthwhisperer » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

because the quality is not measured on whether you're a male or female but on the number of readers or clicks. Very transparent and very non-discriminatory. We all know woman write differently and generally speaking don't touch the bits and bytes but more the feelings/humanity behind.

For example, questions like does a chip have feelings or what about this twin brother does he feel lonely

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#184

Post by 1cvmask » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #182

1cvmask wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are privileged you have no extra weight or leg up over someone else on standardized tests. That’s why it is the privileged elite who decry tests and call for “diversity.” Under the guise and mask of diversity they try to maintain and entrench their privilege while giving the occasional breadcrumbs to the truly historically disadvantaged. I can’t for the life of me understand how the daughter of Bill Gates is…

Privileged white people who wants to preserve their privilege says that the poor white people are the problem and then kick those out in favor of black people. But the privileged white people are still there. And people wonder why poor white people don't like all of this "diversity" rethoric.

The poor whites are the collateral damage to the false flag diversity operation of the white elites. Otherwise the privileged white elites would be replaced/displaced by the test acing primarily non-white immigrants.

"Diversity" initiatives is an act of self-preservation for the rich white elites.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#185

Post by Zababa » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #148

Zababa wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, but you have to admit that if all programmers were white that would be pretty suspect, and would hint that there may be something discriminatory as play. I don't agree with that. Black people are heavily overrepresented in sports in the USA. I personally believe that this is partially due to some physical differences that makes them better at sports, and that even if the cultures were exactly the same, they w…

> "Black people are heavily overrepresented in sports ... partially due to some physical differences that makes them better at sports.... I also don't think that means there is something discriminatory at play other than biology." so let's just ignore 400 years of severe and oppressive unnatural selection then? with that said, these arguments trying to tease out tiny differences between arbitrary groups of people are…

> so let's just ignore 400 years of severe and oppressive unnatural selection then?

I don't think I've ignored it, as I've said "partially".

> with that said, these arguments trying to tease out tiny differences between arbitrary groups of people are simply not fruitful outside of trying to assert dominance/superiority over others. the point is always to establish a halo effect where favorable group characteristics shine generously on the braggart in question. it's always an argument about supremacy, not 'intellectual curiosity', but it actually signals individual insecurity rather than group superiority.

No, that's not my point at all. The context was the following comment:

> As for ratios, the ratio indicates an uneven pipeline. If idk, programmers were all white and highly rewarded, you might ask why that is. The reason can be one of two things: white people are culturally/systemically advantaged in getting those jobs (for example, those jobs are only available in predominantly-white areas or the education to do the job is more accessible to white people), or white people are more fundamentally capable of programming than others. The former is a social critique, the latter is white supremacy.

> If you reject the white supremacist position (as you should), then the question becomes whether you can make the system provide more of an equal opportunity.

In that comment, the author said that thinking that "white people are more fundamentally capable of programming than others" is white supremacy. I agree with you that in many cases, people trying to say that one group is fundamentally better than the other are supremacist. My point was that even if different people have different abilities, it shouldn't give them power over others.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#186

Post by ratww » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

dayvid wrote: post #46

quadrifoliate wrote: post #10

Compared to programming and tech, success in a lot of fields in the humanities, including journalism is far more connected to who you know, what family you were born into, what college you went to, and your overall personal network. In such an environment, it is unsurprising that there is a severe lack of diversity. I have never received a satisfactory answer for why a lot of people from these fields are all about "E…

People hate on tech interviews, but it's honestly a lot more fair than traditional interviewing if done properly. You only gauge the candidate on their ability to solve and think through a problem. I also follow a trainer's pattern who doesn't read the candidate's resume before a technical screen to further reduce bias.

I kinda agree. When I started in the early 2000s, the norm was a 1-2 hour battery of psychological tests that somehow tried to assess my intelligence before someone technical even spoke to me.

1-2 hours of leetcode, or a 5-6 hours take-home project is a godsend. Programming is my passion anyways.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#187

Post by nverno » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #100

secondaryacct wrote: post #2

I'd be curious how they define race. Do they have a rule book with color pigment density, size of external attributes and maybe even a grading scale of good to bad "diversity factor"? I find it more disturbing they consider diversity on a pseudo scientific race definition than the supposed lack of diversity. What if in those they call white, many are women, many are young or old, fulltime or partime, idealists or pra…

Is there any definition of race, other than “human”, where the authors point changes in correctness or lack thereof?

Yes, a common conception of race is nation/region/tribe- eg. Trojan, Roman, Mongol, or the various SA tribes. So, a modern US-centric version could be the state you are from, or rural/urban, etc. It's meaningless, though, unless society adopts the concept, and given the worldview nowadays it's hard to imagine anything more granular than continental origin gaining traction (at least in US).

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#188

Post by ratww » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #158

thenanyu wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conditions certainly have to be right but it works for high quality candidates if your reputation is good and you engender enough trust. High quality candidates are generally confident in their abilities and thankful that they can take 2 weeks to show you their skills instead of doing it in a high pressure setting in a couple of hours.

> High quality candidates are generally confident in their abilities and thankful that they can take 2 weeks to show you their skills instead of doing it in a high pressure setting in a couple of hours. When I'm interviewing, I prefer interviewing with multiple companies[1] while still earning an income. No way I'm going through 2 weeks * N companies because it entails quitting my old job first, and interviewing for…

> When I'm interviewing, I prefer interviewing with multiple companies while still earning an income

That's what I do too.

But my strategy is taking vacation for interviews, and then taking a "real" vacation in-between jobs. Not possible for everyone, but so far it has worked for me.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#189

Post by Iefthandrule » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #168

Iefthandrule wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see narratives about how everyone should get into finance. That is certainly a good ol boys club.

Getting into tech and getting a great-paying job is achievable and realistic for anyone from any background, right now. It's completely unregulated, there's no gatekeeping outside of factual knowledge, and people are actively encouraging diverse applicants with non-traditional educational backgrounds. Even if the experience for these people is not always as good as it could be, the community is trying. Getting into f…

The point being made is that finance is far more exclusionary and racist/sexist than tech, but tech gets all the articles written about it. The onus would be on those with power to change hiring in finance, much like the big tech companies are tasked with making tech more inclusive.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#190

Post by Nasrudith » Fri, Nov 19, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

wolpoli wrote: post #178

quadrifoliate wrote: post #10

Compared to programming and tech, success in a lot of fields in the humanities, including journalism is far more connected to who you know, what family you were born into, what college you went to, and your overall personal network. In such an environment, it is unsurprising that there is a severe lack of diversity. I have never received a satisfactory answer for why a lot of people from these fields are all about "E…

> I have never received a satisfactory answer for why a lot of people from these fields are all about "Everyone should learn to code" initiatives, but not, say "Everyone should learn to be a citizen journalist", or "Everyone should learn to be a copy editor". Indeed, in many aspects, the latter would seem to share many aspects with learning to code (attention to detail, focus on syntax, etc.), and be more accessible.…

Coding is an accessible path to wealth which conceivably could support more. Nursing receives that in pulses and there are tons of organizations and outright unions for them. Nursing has boom and bust cycle

Those which fail at scalability and wealth would fall flat before it gets off the drawing board. An initiative to promte being a X would be utterly panned for these for instance.

1. janitor 2. social worker 3. hollywood actor 4. major league athlete 5. CEO