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Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

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Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#181

Post by oneorangeday »

I guess it depends on what you mean by "digital" features.

I purchased a 2021 vehicle, its a GM vehicle. Its my first GM product, my last was a Toyota but very basic model, no tech. This has everything and while I enjoyed it at first, a few things started to happen in the vehicle that made me realize that I don't want this vehicle anymore. Primarily the OnStar "feature", I get an ad like chime every so often, asking if I would like to sign up or that this vehicle has OnStar and I should activate it.

I get the world we live in and I get that everything has a subscription service attached to it but when that OnStar kicks in while I am talking to someone in the car it creeps me out. Its like when Siri asks how can I help you when you didn't ask for help yet its feels a bit more awkward. Can't explain why except I will be selling the vehicle very soon, just not sure what I will be getting next. Older, like 2000's, low miles and base model.

Its why I have not purchased an EV, while they don't all have subscriptions its started to feel like they are all going in that direction. I love tech but it has become a bit overwhelming in vehicles. If I paid for the car I really don't want to have ads while driving the vehicle (old school thinking I guess).

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#182

Post by screye »

I would recommend Mazda vehicles.

Their entire lineup offers a small set of effective and minimally intrusive digital/smart features. But, outside of that, they keep it simple.

The no-touchscreen is a much safer way to interact with the vehicle, and afaik they have stuck to the traditional 'car' formula. Most of their cars can be purchased in manual and have pretty good driving mechanics for a honda/toyota competitor.

The Mazda 3 Hatch, is IMO the best deal in cars right now.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#183

Post by dave4270 »

We have no plans to ever sell the two cars we have. I highly recommend copies if you can find them. My wife has a 2007 4Runner. 150K on the odo and all I've ever needed to change was an alternator and brakes. If you do your own work, nothing on the planet is better for a mechanic than a Toyota. Ours is also the V8 (unicorn-ish) but I don't recommend that unless you need to tow something significant. Mine is a 2014 Subaru BRZ with three pedals. IMHO, it's the best car ever made. Like a shifter kart with airbags.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#184

Post by ospzfmbbzr »

artimaeis wrote: post #150
ospzfmbbzr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a pile. Blind spot detection system malfunction a lot to the point of being useless. Front collision detection is just annoying. I have driven for 40 years and have never rear-ended anyone or run over a pedestrian. These 'safety' 'features' are only useful to terrible drivers. Decent drivers are just annoyed by the car fighting you. I guess they need to have some way to keep adding features so the price points n…

What a pile. Your anecdata are not in and of themselves data. Regardless of your skill, or the skill/expertise/attentiveness of any individual driver, drivers as a collective remain dangerous to themselves and pedestrians. How did I come to this conclusion? I reviewed data, here's a couple of sources: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/2020-fatality-data-show... https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx By all…

Generally requests in comments to cite sources or provide data are in fact simply disingenuous attempts to confuse the issue.

Regardless, your datas mean nothing -- They are only guaranteed to be incorrect for each individual case.

You say collectively drivers are dangerous, but the implication is that we would apply the same rule to all in the interest of 'fairness' or some other such subjective nonsense.

So it's 'Drag everyone down to the same low level?' Is that the solution?

NO.

You are allowed to make mistakes in a free country and pay the price. Saying you are not free to hurt others implies you would do so -- even in the face of a lifetime of safe driving and non-criminal behavior.

Those bodies compiling the statistic you quote exist for the sole purpose of bureaucratic enrichment through the creation of rules -- whether they are ever really needed is irrelevant to them.

I'll end with a quote from a man much wiser than any of us on this board.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#185

Post by germinalphrase »

officeplant wrote: post #115
selykg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can actually be worse, trapping heat in. But yea, completely non-functional. Remove it if the clips are broken. You aren't missing anything.

I assume they are talking about the splash guard / aeroplate underneath the engine which helps with MPGs to some extent. The plastic engine cover doesn't even need to be touched during an oil change.

Correct. Only talking about splash guard.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#186

Post by atweiden »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #141

Annoyingly, I want an electric car without "digitilization". No distracting central touch screen, no "autopilot" nonsense, proper gauges and indicators, tactile feel. A focus on the driving and safety and ergonomics, not on "we don't need an instrument cluster because iPads are cool, people like their phones and buttons are expensive and break"... A Saab 900 with an electric motor. Please make it.

Tommykaira

Imagine if your tesla’s interior looked like this: https://youtu.be/oPAvyt9ZNrg?t=221

https://smallblogv8.blogspot.com/2020/10/oh-yeah-tommykaira-...

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#187

Post by necovek »

willis936 wrote: post #133
HWR_14 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't buy a new daily driver that doesn't have blind spot monitoring, collision avoidance, lane keep assist, etc. Once you have these features and you are accustomed to how they work, you can't go back. And I don't like them. But only one of us has the government taking away our choice by making them mandatory. I wouldn't mind them if it wasn't for the fact that they universally seem to be points of failure th…

They're not there for you to like them. They're there so you don't kill someone and someone else doesn't kill you. Society collectively fails to give a single ass of a rat about how people feel about their ubiquitous 2-ton death machine.

As I explained in my another comment on this thread, sometimes they can behave unpredictably — eg. car brakes without a need — causing someone else to crash into you (these are most common crashes I see in the city streets). Perhaps they are not useful for me because I am a very attentive driver (eg. I prefer not to talk on the phone even with the BT hands-free system while driving because it takes my attention away from the road), but they are far away from being all positives.

And how many more cars are going to be produced and bought because of "planned obsolescence" when electronic systems in modern cars start to give up (eg. electric cars and their engines should be able to last for a really long time)? Are they going to keep getting security updates for 20, 30 years? Or will we start seeing people doing something to fool their sensors so they crash?

While I like all the technology, it's short-sighted to think that the alternative is desired simply because people don't care about potentially hurting someone with their cars. Like everything else in life, this issue is multifaceted too.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#188

Post by baybal2 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #141

Annoyingly, I want an electric car without "digitilization". No distracting central touch screen, no "autopilot" nonsense, proper gauges and indicators, tactile feel. A focus on the driving and safety and ergonomics, not on "we don't need an instrument cluster because iPads are cool, people like their phones and buttons are expensive and break"... A Saab 900 with an electric motor. Please make it.

I believe Wuling MiniEV is exactly that.

Current MiniEV ships with a display for instrument cluster, earlier ones had dials.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#189

Post by ospzfmbbzr »

Misdicorl wrote: post #179
ospzfmbbzr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a pile. Blind spot detection system malfunction a lot to the point of being useless. Front collision detection is just annoying. I have driven for 40 years and have never rear-ended anyone or run over a pedestrian. These 'safety' 'features' are only useful to terrible drivers. Decent drivers are just annoyed by the car fighting you. I guess they need to have some way to keep adding features so the price points n…

Given that cars are by far the most common cause of violent injury and death, I think it's kind of silly to call it an irrational fear. You are not exceptional. You are maaaaybe in the top quintile of driver competence. Very likely not if you've been driving for forty years- your reaction times are trash compared to a twenty year old. These driver assist features would help you be a safer driver.

> Given that cars are by far the most common cause of violent injury and death

Actually that is Governments. Most in the 20th century at least for sure. Probably all time.

Re: Ask HN: Best cars without too much digitalization?

#190

Post by Misdicorl »

ospzfmbbzr wrote: post #189
Misdicorl wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that cars are by far the most common cause of violent injury and death, I think it's kind of silly to call it an irrational fear. You are not exceptional. You are maaaaybe in the top quintile of driver competence. Very likely not if you've been driving for forty years- your reaction times are trash compared to a twenty year old. These driver assist features would help you be a safer driver.

> Given that cars are by far the most common cause of violent injury and death Actually that is Governments. Most in the 20th century at least for sure. Probably all time.

Fair point.
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