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Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

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Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#171
post #66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared to programming and tech, success in a lot of fields in the humanities, including journalism is far more connected to who you know, what family you were born into, what college you went to, and your overall personal network. In such an environment, it is unsurprising that there is a severe lack of diversity. This is one of my concerns about the recent antipathy toward standardized testing. My family came ov…

What do you think about the system on the subcontinent? I'm not sure how it's done in Bangladesh, but in India your higher education is basically decided by your score on a few objective measures which are orders of magnitude more difficult than the SAT. It's actually mind-boggling how much harder IIT JEE math is compared to SAT math.

> What do you think about ... how much harder IIT JEE math is

Seems to me that there are only a couple of different ways somebody could feel about that. The first is to be opposed to the "the smarter you are, the more money you make/better you do in life" meritocratic egalitarianism that these tests support. The second is to support that ideal (whether you agree we're there or not), but insist that tests don't accurately measure intelligence.

Either way, while I can sort of see where the opponents are coming from, I don't see them offering many good alternatives. I don't think it's cosmically "fair" that being born to insanely rich parents leaves you better off in life than being born to unemployed drug addicts, but the only "solution" anybody's ever put forward is massive ongoing wealth redistribution which is demonstrably worse. Similarly, it's not necessarily fair that people who are born smart do better than people who are born stupid, but what do you do? Require as many stupid doctors as smart doctors? Demand that for every smart highway engineer, a stupid one be included as well?

I can also sympathize with people who insist that tests don't accurately measure intelligence - I've always done well on tests, so this system has worked out well for me, but I can see how somebody could be otherwise intelligent but unable to perform on tests. But again... what do you do? Just declare everybody equally intelligent and don't measure anything? Like it or not, tests do measure something that does correlate with that hard-to-quantify trait we call "intelligence" and while there are regrettable false positives as well as false negatives, it's the best we have.

So I wish our tests were harder so there'd be a more fine-grained stratification of actual ability, even if I ended up being closer to the middle than I am now - that would be ok, because a lot of other people would be closer to the middle too! A tests that accurately measured intelligence such that only the most intelligent people in the world could dominate it would necessarily be almost impossible to score perfectly on it, by definition. In the face of such a test, a 50% would be something to brag about and the top scorers would be off curing cancer or something for the benefit of all of us.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better signals you could get of job success but they require a greater up front investment; I’ve had a good track record with a slightly lower bar on the technical screen and a 30 day probationary period. Some friends of mine user a 2 week work trial for all candidates.

I can't imagine a high-quality candidate agreeing to either of those things in the current market. I certainly wouldn't. But software engineering is very bimodal, so I'm sure it works.

He's asking somebody to quit the job they have now in exchange for a chance to get a new job... you might be able to get new college graduates or already unemployed to agree to that, but definitely nobody with any sort of options.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#174
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big tech media term is just bullshit. "Big Tech" describes a handful of companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people . "Big Tech media" is either media about big tech - in which case this list is a horrible mis-representation missing some of the most obvious names in big tech journalism (Gruber, Gurman, MKBHD for Apple journalism for example, the Wallstreet Journal breaking the Facebook whistleblower and…

Well now you're shifting the goal posts to a different topic. I was responding to your claim of this set of companies being random and your concern about some not being included The size of these companies is irrelevant to that point And who are these companies you keep mentioning? They don't even come up when I search them on DuckDuckGo. That's how small they are in comparison to the companies the author included as…

I'm not moving the goal posts -the goal posts as I'll state them is "Big Tech Media" is a nebulous term that you can't reasonably define as these 13 companies. I don't know why you're struggling to find the people I've listed, MKBHD is arguably the single largest tech youtuber, John Gruber at daring fireball regularly appears on HN, Mark Gurman - at Bloomberg is basically the leading reporter to cover Apple, and I don't think we need to explain how big Bloomberg or Wall Street Journal are. But they're conspicuous by their absense. As for the ones that are on the list - they're largely just brand names as part larger conglomerates like Conde Naste or Future Plc, or Yahoo!

What I'm saying is we can have standards like "I took the 10 brands that have the top ranking on Alexa in this category plus 5 tech arms of larger titles" - or something like that, an actual objective standard for what they're selecting rather than a grab bag of 13 random companies.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#176
post #13

Where's my PC Bullshit Bingo (TM) card? I need to cross off a couple of fields: 1) reducing "diversity" to "different skin colors" 2) fixating on the Third-Reich-esque concept of "human race" 3) insisting that skin colors can be neatly sorted into 4-5 discrete categories 4) lamenting the ratio between these categories, without stating what the correct ratio should be, and why

It's better to read this as just a form of "genuine politics" in the sense that it's one group saying they want more resources than they have. Here, the message is basically: our people want more of what your people have. ("Proper ratios" arent the point). This is what most of these movements are about, a certain type of economic-political warefare most accute when high-status positions are rare and there's a lot of…

> our people want...we think we're owed

As somebody who is prohibited from having "people", the whole "our people" thing rubs me the wrong way from the beginning.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#178

Compared to programming and tech, success in a lot of fields in the humanities, including journalism is far more connected to who you know, what family you were born into, what college you went to, and your overall personal network. In such an environment, it is unsurprising that there is a severe lack of diversity. I have never received a satisfactory answer for why a lot of people from these fields are all about "E…

> I have never received a satisfactory answer for why a lot of people from these fields are all about "Everyone should learn to code" initiatives, but not, say "Everyone should learn to be a citizen journalist", or "Everyone should learn to be a copy editor". Indeed, in many aspects, the latter would seem to share many aspects with learning to code (attention to detail, focus on syntax, etc.), and be more accessible.

The answer lies in where those "Everyone should learn to code" initiatives come from.

Software/Tech workers, unlike many other fields, don't have any prominant organizations that advocate for their rights, set working standards, conduct examinations for certificates, or even just speak for them in public. The void is currently filled by others, such as Tech CEOs and organization in other fields, who have other agendas. One of the agenda is to get more people into the field, reducing barrier of entry so that Tech companies have an easier time hiring.

Essentially, software/tech workers don't have a say in our field like the accountants/doctors/pharmacists/lawyers/trades.

Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#179
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, but you have to admit that if all programmers were white that would be pretty suspect, and would hint that there may be something discriminatory as play. I don't agree with that. Black people are heavily overrepresented in sports in the USA. I personally believe that this is partially due to some physical differences that makes them better at sports, and that even if the cultures were exactly the same, they w…

> "Black people are heavily overrepresented in sports ... partially due to some physical differences that makes them better at sports.... I also don't think that means there is something discriminatory at play other than biology." so let's just ignore 400 years of severe and oppressive unnatural selection then? with that said, these arguments trying to tease out tiny differences between arbitrary groups of people are…

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Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)

#180
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are intellectual pursuits different from sports pursuits, especially when it's one specific intellectual pursuit? And again, you make the jump from "white people are better at programming than black people" to "white people are more intelligent than black people". Can you name a reason that two populations that only differ in racial category would differ on average in programming capability that isn't rooted in…

> Correct me if I'm wrong but you appear to be taking the position that white people /are/ innately more intelligent than black people but we should ignore that. My position is that they aren't, and even if they were we still shouldn't dominate others. No, I'm not taking that position at all. My position is the same as yours I think: I don't think white people are more intelligent than black people, and even if they…

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