Does “white” include “Jewish”? :’)
For white jews, yes?
Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
151–160 of 267 posts
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our experiences are fairly rare from what I've seen. Undoubtedly the door is open , but the weight of that door is still far too high and I would not give tech points in the category of meritocracy for that. Also worth mentioning that 300k is FAANG level compensation, and those salaries are fairly rare and not indicative of where most people with less-than-prestigious backgrounds end up (another commenter posted what…
> I would not give tech points in the category of meritocracy for that Why? I'm not trying to argue here that tech is a meritocracy but so far as I've been able to discern it is more meritocratic than any other field offering middle class or above wages. If you disagree, I'd be super interested to hear which fields are doing a better job. If you agree, why not give credit to the industry for doing a better job at sol…
I read the parent/GP as simply saying that while tech doesn't have the same level of gatekeeping as white shoe law does or, for that matter, academia in general, if you have a decent GPA from Stanford things will be far easier than they will be for an equally skilled high school dropout with no connections.
The challenge (which has no easy answer) is that it's far easier for companies to focus on the Stanford grads with decent GPAs than all the high school dropouts who upload a resume, especially if they don't have an obviously interesting portfolio/presence in open source communities.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But the idea that intellectual capacity is an essential difference between racial groups is /the/ white supremacist argument. Why do you believe that genetic differences suddenly stop at the brain stem? Most people who accept that genetic differences between subpopulations exist, also acknowledge that south-east Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average more skilled in STEM fields than "white" people. So much for wh…
Yeah, white supremacists usually do their best to ignore that part. Do you believe race to be a real thing? Like there is some unifying trait between "white" people or between "black" people, besides a vague notion of skin colour and cultural similarity? Bear in mind that Italians and Irish used to be called nonwhite, that there are numerous different ethnicities in both Europe and Africa (including many African ethn…
> Do you believe race to be a real thing?
That's a very loaded question because the word has like six different meanings depending on who you're talking to.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't agree with that. Black people are heavily overrepresented in sports in the USA. I personally believe that this is partially due to some physical differences that makes them better at sports, and that even if the cultures were exactly the same, they would still be overrepresented (relative to their proportion in the total population). I intentionally chose programming as an example because it's an intellectu…
> I intentionally chose programming as an example because it's an intellectual pursuit. Yes, people of different ethnicities can have different physical characteristics; that much is observable. But the idea that intellectual capacity is an essential difference between racial groups is /the/ white supremacist argument. Ie, the idea that white people are inherently smarter than black people. It's their justification f…
> How are intellectual pursuits different from sports pursuits, especially when it's one specific intellectual pursuit? And again, you make the jump from "white people are better at programming than black people" to "white people are more intelligent than black people".
Can you name a reason that two populations that only differ in racial category would differ on average in programming capability that isn't rooted in mutable things like culture, socioeconomic status etc? You're aggressively missing my point.
> Again, I don't understand why you're defending the idea that if there are immutable differences between people, one group must dominate the other.
The fuck are you talking about? Point to a single thing I said that defends racial dominance (you can't). Correct me if I'm wrong but you appear to be taking the position that white people /are/ innately more intelligent than black people but we should ignore that. My position is that they aren't, and even if they were we still shouldn't dominate others.
Every other argument you've trotted out here are essentialist about intelligence, that some races and some classes are more intelligent than others. That's a pretty reactionary position, and I don't think it's one you can be argued out of because it is axiomatic rather than empirical.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our experiences are fairly rare from what I've seen. Undoubtedly the door is open , but the weight of that door is still far too high and I would not give tech points in the category of meritocracy for that. Also worth mentioning that 300k is FAANG level compensation, and those salaries are fairly rare and not indicative of where most people with less-than-prestigious backgrounds end up (another commenter posted what…
> I would not give tech points in the category of meritocracy for that Why? I'm not trying to argue here that tech is a meritocracy but so far as I've been able to discern it is more meritocratic than any other field offering middle class or above wages. If you disagree, I'd be super interested to hear which fields are doing a better job. If you agree, why not give credit to the industry for doing a better job at sol…
> Why? I'm not trying to argue here that tech is a meritocracy but so far as I've been able to discern it is more meritocratic than any other field offering middle class or above wages. If you disagree, I'd be super interested to hear which fields are doing a better job. If you agree, why not give credit to the industry for doing a better job at solving this very hard problem than anyone else?
Apologies, I was not trying to argue that you were presenting it was. That's my internal ideal: tech should be meritocratic and involve zero prestige. To me arguing whether tech is better or worse than any other industry is fairly futile. It's more important to say, "Should this field require a degree and prestige or not?" The answer in tech is, "no", so the fact that we have it and that it weighs so heavy is what makes it frustrating. It's like saying, "Once you're in it matters less!" In medicine or law, that's entirely different. At the end of the day, the process of interviewing and hiring is still bad (if not worse) so being better (or even drastically better) than other fields means very little.
> If we view meritocracy as judging workers as they are, and not accounting for what they might have been in a more equitable society, that's the outcome I'd expect from a meritorious interview process.
That's a fair point, prestigious people generally thrive in a meritocracy. Though, I think what this inevitably leads to is "invest more in education and opportunity" platitudes. The fact is, those things are a long way off from getting feasibly better. There are ways to bridge that gap, like offering free courses in algorithms and data structures for people from non-prestigious backgrounds, but I have a feeling the hiring requirements would just shift then.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why have we chosen these 13 random publications? I'm assuming that the NYT is included literally just because the people who did this study don't like the NYT? These are some of the biggest media publications that write about tech issues, these aren't just "random" choices. This author seems to focus on "big tech media" as is mentioned in the article multiple times, these are big tech media, independent journalists…
The big tech media term is just bullshit. "Big Tech" describes a handful of companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people . "Big Tech media" is either media about big tech - in which case this list is a horrible mis-representation missing some of the most obvious names in big tech journalism (Gruber, Gurman, MKBHD for Apple journalism for example, the Wallstreet Journal breaking the Facebook whistleblower and…
Well now you're shifting the goal posts to a different topic. I was responding to your claim of this set of companies being random and your concern about some not being included
The size of these companies is irrelevant to that point
And who are these companies you keep mentioning? They don't even come up when I search them on DuckDuckGo. That's how small they are in comparison to the companies the author included as "big tech"
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you provide a source for the average wealth based off race? $8 is pretty wild and hard to believe. I agree with your point, if disparities exist, they should be discussed.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/12/11/that-was-typo-t... sourcing: https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/one-time-pubs/color-o...
Interesting read, one thing to point out, seems that the median wealth is $8 and not the average as stated before. Don't think it makes a difference to your point though.
What's surprising is that when looking at the sample breakdown, even thought the # of observations and median age was approximately the same for White and U.S. Black, the U.S Black sample group where significantly less likely to be married (and thus not able to account for any spouse's income/wealth in the calculations for household net worth).
> Although members of communities of color are less likely to own homes, among homeowners they are more likely to have mortgage debt. Also, data on student loans and medical debt for whites and racial/ethnic minorities suggest that whites are often less likely to have these forms of debt.
This looks like the most critical reason for such a disparity.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't imagine a high-quality candidate agreeing to either of those things in the current market. I certainly wouldn't. But software engineering is very bimodal, so I'm sure it works.
The conditions certainly have to be right but it works for high quality candidates if your reputation is good and you engender enough trust. High quality candidates are generally confident in their abilities and thankful that they can take 2 weeks to show you their skills instead of doing it in a high pressure setting in a couple of hours.
> High quality candidates are generally confident in their abilities and thankful that they can take 2 weeks to show you their skills instead of doing it in a high pressure setting in a couple of hours.
When I'm interviewing, I prefer interviewing with multiple companies[1] while still earning an income. No way I'm going through 2 weeks * N companies because it entails quitting my old job first, and interviewing for months at a time - not preparing but actually interviewing - which is crazy talk to me. I'd rather go through the high-pressure/low time-commitment route as it's scalable.
1. Companies are paradoxically "desperate for engineers" and more willing to keep positions open for longer, so it's prudent to maximize my chances of getting hired by spreading my net as wide as possible. Having multiple offers in hand also strengthens my negotiating position for remuneration.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would not give tech points in the category of meritocracy for that Why? I'm not trying to argue here that tech is a meritocracy but so far as I've been able to discern it is more meritocratic than any other field offering middle class or above wages. If you disagree, I'd be super interested to hear which fields are doing a better job. If you agree, why not give credit to the industry for doing a better job at sol…
> Why? I'm not trying to argue here that tech is a meritocracy but so far as I've been able to discern it is more meritocratic than any other field offering middle class or above wages. If you disagree, I'd be super interested to hear which fields are doing a better job. If you agree, why not give credit to the industry for doing a better job at solving this very hard problem than anyone else? Apologies, I was not tr…
> so being better (or even drastically better) than other fields means very little.
I think this where we differ. I think this view is a bit disheartening to me because it feels like making the perfect the enemy of a good. I don't think completely removing prestige is a viable option for most companies without some replacement that no one has yet figured out, so I'm ok with applauding whatever steps can be made to make the system better.
Thanks for so clearly sharing your perspective.
Re: Tech journalism is less diverse than tech (2020)
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the context of the article white and black are supposed to be races and says as much. There are “black people” who are light skinned, and there are people darker than “black people” who are not considered black.
> There are “black people” who are light skinned, and there are people darker than “black people” who are not considered black. Wtf? That's literally the opposite of true. What's next, will you claim that there are "blondes" with brunette hair, and "dark-haired people" who are considered redheads?
Black doesn’t mean your skin is literally black, lol. Can’t take you seriously tbh.
Are Native Americans Black? Certain Indians? Samoans? Give me a break lol
Comparing blondes with Black people is an inane comparison