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Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about stealing but is it not the case that most sex offenders are men? That seems like an actual risk wherase the accusations at play in racism are just made up.

Men are also far more often convicted of murder, arson, vandalism, assault, and so on. You would think those would be problems in any workplace, no?

Apparently people are willing to risk that and not child abuse. They probably mistakenly see it as less of a risk as well.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#162
post #149

I have a developing conjecture that in order to address the perceived problem of higher male per capita in certain occupations, attracting males into occupations with higher female ratios is as important as incentivizing female participation in high-male occupations. I'm no mathematician but I see it in terms of system numbers: Given a set of occupations with different sex ratios, to change the ratio of any specific…

I've not been able to wrap my head around this issue. What is the thinking behind the desire to even sex ratios in various profession? Why are some professions receiving more attention than others when it comes to evening sex ratios. Is a perfect world when every construction site, hospital, and dreary programming job (lets be honest most of them aren't fun) has an even mix of the sexes? What is the benefit? Can some…

It's about increasing the available labor market

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are marginalized in many ways beyond what this one article says - education, criminal justice, mental health to name but a few broad areas. Anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem and should have no voice in this conversation. Happy International Men's Day.

> Anyone who says otherwise is part of the problem and should have no voice in this conversation. This is the same intolerant gatekeeping that I loathe in the feminist camp. Everyone has a voice, anyone can participate, no one-person gets to define "the" problem, let alone label/dehumanize people as being problems.

> no one-person gets to define "the" problem

Well of course, this is not a dictatorship and I'm not a dictator. I'm stating my opinion on a forum.

In the same way flat-Earthers have no place teaching astronomy, someone who believes the pay gap is women getting paid less for the same work has no place teaching sociology. That is intolerant, but so it should be.

Gatekeeping is inevitable and necessary, the problem is that the wrong people currently hold the keys. You can find yourself locked out for stating that the wage gap is one side of a compromise, or that men get harsher criminal punishments (for the same crimes), or that female-perpetrated sexual abuse has been grossly undercounted (my personal grievance). If we want to confront these issues, then the existing gatekeepers need to be replaced, not tolerated.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, usually when one corners them in a debate they will grudgingly mumble something about the draft, but find me a spontaneous protest that the draft only inducts men, or about circumcision! They can be badgered into it but they have no actual vigor for it. I did find the various -- when the idea that the draft would apply in the US to women -- responses of "This isn't the kind of equality I wanted" very amusing in a…

The draft is very low on most people's protest agenda because it's a coercive thing. Very few people will argue for more coercion, and especially not towards violence. Meanwhile, women have fought long and hard to be accepted as equals in the (voluntary) military. And you will find many supporters if instead the selective service, you'd support e.g a year of mandatory social service. You'll also find support to aband…

> The draft is very low on most people's protest agenda because it's a coercive thing. Very few people will argue for more coercion, and especially not towards violence.

But this is pretty much the same reason that we don’t see outcry about the lack of women working on garbage trucks: it’s not a desirable thing.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#165
post #149

I have a developing conjecture that in order to address the perceived problem of higher male per capita in certain occupations, attracting males into occupations with higher female ratios is as important as incentivizing female participation in high-male occupations. I'm no mathematician but I see it in terms of system numbers: Given a set of occupations with different sex ratios, to change the ratio of any specific…

I've not been able to wrap my head around this issue. What is the thinking behind the desire to even sex ratios in various profession? Why are some professions receiving more attention than others when it comes to evening sex ratios. Is a perfect world when every construction site, hospital, and dreary programming job (lets be honest most of them aren't fun) has an even mix of the sexes? What is the benefit? Can some…

A woman is interested in computers and gains skills in that area, then tries to get a job in the field. People making hiring decisions like their boys-club culture (maybe even subconsciously) so the woman doesn't get hired even though equivalently qualified, and somehow thinks or figures out that this is somewhat due to herself being a woman.

Then the woman makes actions to fix this for herself and future women.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#166
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody looks at the imbalance in incarceration rates and assumes that police and the justice system are systemically sexist against men, but they certainly draw that conclusion along racial lines based on the same outcome.

Funnily enough this has been extensively studied, the systemic sexism against men in the justice system is a proven fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentencing_disparity https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337844261_Sentencin... https://crimsoc.hull.ac.uk/2020/06/18/gender-differences-and...

A proven fact that will be denied in most social justice conversations.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#167
post #149

I have a developing conjecture that in order to address the perceived problem of higher male per capita in certain occupations, attracting males into occupations with higher female ratios is as important as incentivizing female participation in high-male occupations. I'm no mathematician but I see it in terms of system numbers: Given a set of occupations with different sex ratios, to change the ratio of any specific…

I've not been able to wrap my head around this issue. What is the thinking behind the desire to even sex ratios in various profession? Why are some professions receiving more attention than others when it comes to evening sex ratios. Is a perfect world when every construction site, hospital, and dreary programming job (lets be honest most of them aren't fun) has an even mix of the sexes? What is the benefit? Can some…

The simplistic version of the premise is more like: women are under-represented in occupations which have more money and/or power, and also within the more senior positions of all occupations (which also tend to correlate with more money and/or power), which must be because they are either discriminated against when seeking those positions, or because they are discouraged from seeking those positions by an expectation of discrimination.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#168
post #149

I have a developing conjecture that in order to address the perceived problem of higher male per capita in certain occupations, attracting males into occupations with higher female ratios is as important as incentivizing female participation in high-male occupations. I'm no mathematician but I see it in terms of system numbers: Given a set of occupations with different sex ratios, to change the ratio of any specific…

I've not been able to wrap my head around this issue. What is the thinking behind the desire to even sex ratios in various profession? Why are some professions receiving more attention than others when it comes to evening sex ratios. Is a perfect world when every construction site, hospital, and dreary programming job (lets be honest most of them aren't fun) has an even mix of the sexes? What is the benefit? Can some…

It all starts with the dubious (to say the least) premise that men and women are exactly the same. Both sexes on average want the same things, like the same things, are interested in the same things, and have the same priorities and proclivities.

Therefore, in a just world, we'd see an exact 50/50 ratio of men and women in every possible occupation, because there are no differences between men and women, therefore the only possible explanation for non-parity anywhere is because some kind of "systemic" factor is unfairly preventing one of the sexes from achieving the career results that they obviously want.

And if men and women don't want the same things on average, then that itself is a symptom of some kind of systemic problem. Because biology plays no role in human psychology; we're the only species in the animal kingdom to come into this world with no pre-programming and absolutely everything that we do is the result of cultural conditioning. So men and women could be exactly the same if only more parents would let their sons play with Barbie and their daughters play with GI Joe.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#169
post #138

These were the positions for which men were most discriminated against: - Men were half as likely as women to get a response when applying for a child care position (25.7% of men vs. 52.8% of women) - Men were half as likely as women to get a response when applying for a cleaner position (12.1% men vs. 27.8% women) Link to study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

The first one I get. People distrust the combination of men and children. For whatever reason. The second one I don't get?
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