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Crypto Wash Trading

arxiv.org

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Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#101

Post by throwawaygh »

latchkey wrote: post #81
Zamicol wrote: post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

Take a deep dive into MEV (miner extractable value). Poorly named for what it is, but I think it is something that you're missing in this picture.

> Miner extractable value (MEV) is a measure of the profit a miner can make through their ability to arbitrarily include, exclude, or re-order transactions within the blocks they produce.

Um. Wow.

So... how much of crypto is just "things that are illegal to do with anything that's not crypto"?

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#102

Post by coding123 »

temp8964 wrote: post #93
nefitty wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is interdependent. Wash trading on one platform benefits all other platforms. When you ask someone the price of BTC they don't say $x on Coinbase, $y on Kraken, etc. Literally all of crypto is a scam. After 10 years there is not one feasible use case that isn't done better through another tool. I don't consider "making black markets and extortion easier" a feasible use case.

What if the reason of slow adoption is traditional institutions act against it?

I don't think that's the case. There was a period of time about 5 or so years ago where you could pay with Bitcoin almost anywhere. That's all but disappeared after a wave of $100 transaction fees hit.

Use case was killed by itself.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#103

Post by zeroxfe »

teitoklien wrote: post #76
Zamicol wrote: post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

.... People pay for volume on uniswap daily ... They just spin up new wallets and keep making them exchange very high amounts of a token (10ETH buy , 10 ETH sell , multiple times) (net expense is just the gas fees, but they get paid wayyy more to do this). This is usually done to get uniswap traded tokens onto various trending lists like cmc , dextools , etc. I’d say there is 10-40x the fraud on uniswap than on centr…

> I’d say there is 10-40x the fraud on uniswap than on centralised exchanges

This makes no sense, especially if you factor in gas prices, pool fees, and volume.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#104

Post by coding123 »

joshfraser wrote: post #78
nefitty wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is interdependent. Wash trading on one platform benefits all other platforms. When you ask someone the price of BTC they don't say $x on Coinbase, $y on Kraken, etc. Literally all of crypto is a scam. After 10 years there is not one feasible use case that isn't done better through another tool. I don't consider "making black markets and extortion easier" a feasible use case.

Oh yeah? Ever tried to send funds to a family member on the other side of the world over a weekend?

Not on the other side of the world but my parents send me through Zelle and works pretty easily - hits the account same day.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#105

Post by james305 »

arberx wrote: post #42

We also did extensive analysis on this in 2018/2019 and presented it to the SEC: https://static.bitwiseinvestments.com/Research/Bitwise-Asset... Good news: it's getting better. Bad news: still very high.

This was very interesting analysis. Thank you for sharing. Did you look at Crypto.Com?

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#106

Post by rvnx »

joshfraser wrote: post #78
nefitty wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is interdependent. Wash trading on one platform benefits all other platforms. When you ask someone the price of BTC they don't say $x on Coinbase, $y on Kraken, etc. Literally all of crypto is a scam. After 10 years there is not one feasible use case that isn't done better through another tool. I don't consider "making black markets and extortion easier" a feasible use case.

Oh yeah? Ever tried to send funds to a family member on the other side of the world over a weekend?

Western Union, cash money in minutes in nearly all over the world ?

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#107

Post by dannyw »

koolba wrote: post #70
Zamicol wrote: post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

> Uniswap charges a flat fee to every trade for all user. Not flat. It’s a percentage of the trade value. > If you want objective data, Uniswap (and other on-chain exchanges) are truthful. Transaction costs limit on-chain exchange wash trading to some degree, but it doesn’t stop price manipulation. The on-chain aspect has an interesting issue in that during periods of high volatility the network itself gets both slow…

If I trade heaps on Bitfinex I get lower rates. Like a 100k trader might pay 0.2%, but a 10m trader pays 0.05%.

Uniswap is the same for all.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#108

Post by dannyw »

zeroxfe wrote: post #103
teitoklien wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.... People pay for volume on uniswap daily ... They just spin up new wallets and keep making them exchange very high amounts of a token (10ETH buy , 10 ETH sell , multiple times) (net expense is just the gas fees, but they get paid wayyy more to do this). This is usually done to get uniswap traded tokens onto various trending lists like cmc , dextools , etc. I’d say there is 10-40x the fraud on uniswap than on centr…

> I’d say there is 10-40x the fraud on uniswap than on centralised exchanges This makes no sense, especially if you factor in gas prices, pool fees, and volume.

If you own most of the lp, most of the fees go to you.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#109

Post by thebean11 »

dragontamer wrote: post #91
thebean11 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is honestly just exchanges trying to get closer to the top of sites like coinmarketcap..

I mean, its win/win for the exchanges though? Lets say rich person X wants to conduct large-scale wash-trades to artificially increase (or decrease) the price of [insert cryptocoin here]. By conducting it on Exchange-Foobar, Foobar's traffic goes up, while rich person X gets the price change they want. Win-win for both parties. EDIT: Remember: exchanges win on volume. They want more trades, they don't care if the val…

Yes if it's a third party doing it, it's especially a win-win for the exchange as they are getting paid fees on all that transaction volume.

I kind if assumed it was the exchanges themselves faking it. Wash trading without colluding with the exchange is pretty expensive.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#110

Post by yokem55 »

bobobob420 wrote: post #77

Now for the paper on NFT’s being used ONLY for money laundering. Then hopefully I won’t have to listen to someone talk about how much money other people are making. With NFT you can get any illegal income into the country. Keep your illegal funds outside. Go to your country and make an NFT thats “worth” 1 million dollars. Go out of your country and buy it. Congrats u just made art and washed 1 million. Yes a very sim…

You could look for the proportion of addresses trading on opensea that haven't been funded from a KYC exchange either directly or within 1 or 2 degrees of separation.
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