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Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#101

Post by grp000 »

belorn wrote: post #43
blakesterz wrote: post #6

“that, at least in Sweden and the occupations we study, hiring discrimination in entry level jobs is primarily a problem for men in female-dominated occupations,” That's interesting. I work in a female-dominated occupation (libraries), but, it's only female dominated at the lower levels. Historically, at least, directors/managers and the upper level folks tended to be men, and those are of course the only jobs that p…

The study in the article looked at hiring discrimination. The study focused on the tested and established method of correspondence testing to measure active discrimination, in this case response rates to job applications. Gender segregation, ie what fields are dominated by which gender, is related but quite different. For Swedish numbers I can strongly recommend the primary source ( https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik…

I wonder how much of that is a factor of era-started for the directorial positions. Directors have usually accrued decades of experience in the industry, and thus started their careers earlier when culture was more sexist. I think male-dominated senior positions are going to be phased out much more slowly as a less homogeneous workforce matures.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#102

Post by [deleted] »

blitz_skull wrote: post #39
crate_barre wrote: post #16

Humans gonna human. No one group is particularly more righteous, as much as the recent zeitgeist wants to lull us into this belief. Many people even believe that countries would be better off if mostly women ran it. Well, all you’d have is a bunch of corrupt women instead of a bunch of corrupt men.

How dare you suggest the problem is intrinsically in us all!

[deleted]

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#103

Post by jounker »

wonderwonder wrote: post #10

I think its pretty common in the US. Look at law firms there are very few male paralegals and nursing as well. Same concept applies to secretarial / admin / HR style roles. I have seen a hiring manager in real life skip over male applicants for an admin role.

Also note that these are lower paid roles are subordinate/adjunct to higher paid roles dominated by men. Those above are going to be setting the expectations about those below them.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#104

Post by goatlover »

jtbayly wrote: post #22
commandlinefan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gender is an immutable characteristic? That's debatable Actually I don't think anybody's debating that - transexuals say that they were born as whatever gender they identify with, they just say it doesn't match what their body looks like. Everybody seems to agree that it's immutable, even if there are people who can't seem to quite agree on how it's identified.

No. There are many who argue that it is entirely up to you who you want to be. And you can always change your mind.

Which assumes there isn't a biological motivation behind the gender most people wish to identify as. Or that we have some sort of free will independent of what motivates our choices.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#105

Post by gambiting »

guerrilla wrote: post #96
dTal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like pretty standard out-group stigmatization that you also hear applied to immigrants, people of color etc...

I don't know about stealing but is it not the case that most sex offenders are men? That seems like an actual risk wherase the accusations at play in racism are just made up.

No, and absolutely not. That's the exact same argument used against black people in US("most prisoners in US are black[0], therefore it's not racist to be afraid of black people, it's clearly in the data!")

You can spin it any way you want - majority of sexual abuse happens with family members, so actually leaving a child with a stranger is a lot safer, if all you care about is statistical data /s

[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/04/30/shrinking-g...

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#106

Post by Loughla »

guerrilla wrote: post #96
dTal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like pretty standard out-group stigmatization that you also hear applied to immigrants, people of color etc...

I don't know about stealing but is it not the case that most sex offenders are men? That seems like an actual risk wherase the accusations at play in racism are just made up.

Most sex offenders are men, does not mean most men are sex offenders. Nor does it mean that most men who want to go into childcare are sex offenders.

You're inferring results from faulty logic.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#107

Post by dathinab »

Surprise (not).

Discrimination again Man in certain jobs (like kindergarten teacher) is long known and widespread.

Even today people judging a man who want to become a Kindergarten teacher as likely pedophile is not uncommon.

I believe that given that kindergarten teachers act to some degree as role models, the lake of male ones might have noticeable negative effects on some children. Especial such which have problematic parents.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#108

Post by guerrilla »

Loughla wrote: post #106
guerrilla wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about stealing but is it not the case that most sex offenders are men? That seems like an actual risk wherase the accusations at play in racism are just made up.

Most sex offenders are men, does not mean most men are sex offenders. Nor does it mean that most men who want to go into childcare are sex offenders. You're inferring results from faulty logic.

> Most sex offenders are men, does not mean most men are sex offenders

I didn't argue it does. It does mean that men are riskier hires though (by whatever marginal percent.)

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#109

Post by beebeepka »

This is not surprising to me. Not at all.

In a previous life I ended up in a interview for a marketing position at a smallish company. I was in a room with 8 moderately attractive women aged 25 - 45.

Before I left, I asked what's up with that. Their reply was literally: it just happened.

Frankly, I don't mind. Sometimes it's for the better. Who wants to work for a company where everyone is the same? Not this guy

The naughty part of me would have loved it there, though. At least for a while.

Re: Swedish study finds discrimination against men in female-dominated occupations

#110

Post by BitwiseFool »

vanderZwan wrote: post #57
zwieback wrote: post #31

The article goes farther, saying: "There was no evidence of discrimination against women in male-dominated professions or in mixed-gender professions, but the researchers did find evidence of discrimination against men in female-dominated professions." Sweden, though.

More importantly: they looked at hiring practices . That's an extremely narrow view of the problem domain.

>"they looked at hiring practices. That's an extremely narrow view of the problem domain."

While true, the hiring process itself has an outsized influence on the problem domain because everything else depends on it.

If you discriminate during the hiring stage you can confidently assert you aren't discriminating elsewhere by sheer merit of not having hired the kinds of people you are charged with discriminating against in the first place.

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