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I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

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141–150 of 190 posts

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#141
I really like Digital Ocean and Linode in this respect, I can spin up a server, play all night, destroy it and it cost me cents. It's easy to see what't still running and monthly emails (payed per minute) remind you if you still have things running. I never had any surprises. But then again, I am the VM kind of guy, not the hyperscaler type.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#143
I run a SaaS service and noticed we did a couple of these 'dark patterns', but not intentionally!

I've now added to our short term roadmap changes that will resolve these problems.

1. Emailing account holders a couple of days before billing to give them an opportunity to cancel.

2. Emailing account holders whenever a change to their account occurs which would affect billing.

This wasn't us being 'dark' more 'lazy', but thanks for highlighting!

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#144

Of all the nasty things somebody can do with billing, I'm surprised the author leads with card-upfront trials. "Free trials should not require a credit card." This is opinion presented as fact. This is not a dark pattern. Totally unrestricted free trials are wonderful, you've invested a ton in your product and you want a prospective customer to experience everything. But there are legions of abusers and bad actors of…

From one individual user’s perspective - card upfront trials mean that there’s a good chance either (a) I don’t want the product but will be unable to cancel the account due to dark ux/cx or (b) I’ll forget about the trial period and begin being billed then go through hell to get out of it.

I much much much prefer a no ties trial, even if you restrict functionality, volume or some other thing which makes it not useable for regular workloads. It’s a trial, I only need to get a feel for if I think this will work for me, then buy or move on.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#145
post #26

> Free trials should not require a credit card. Collecting your payment information is an obvious red flag that you will be billed as soon as the free trial period ends. I remember many people on HN defending this pattern saying that they are not interested in people who don't want to provide their CC details, that they are bad customers, they just want a free ride, and they are not sorry for setting it up like this.…

How is this a dark or “grey“ pattern. Are they being sneaky about it? At most it could be a signal that a business intends to be a douche, but that’s only because douchey companies ruined it. Just like duchey free customers ruined that for everyone. My employer probably thinks payroll is a “grey” pattern by this logic.

> Just like duchey free customers ruined that for everyone.

But you need to factor this in. Nobody forces you to offer free trial. But if you do, you need to accept the fact that there are people who are going to use your product for free to the maximum available capacity.

In the old days, it wasn't much of a problem: you basically gave away pieces of software that stopped working after a certain period usually with limited functionality. There were many variants of this model: demo, trial, shareware. These free users didn't incur any direct costs for you (often someone else would do that for you, like computer magazines). Now, with SaaS, you need to provide computing resources for them - but this is your marketing cost. This is the problem of the model, not the customers. If you tell them they can use it for free for 2 weeks, they have the full right to use it and stop, period. They are not duchey unless they abuse the system by doing something clearly wrong, e.g. exploiting a bug in your software.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#146
post #29

> Free trials should not require a credit card. Collecting your payment information is an obvious red flag that you will be billed as soon as the free trial period ends. I remember many people on HN defending this pattern saying that they are not interested in people who don't want to provide their CC details, that they are bad customers, they just want a free ride, and they are not sorry for setting it up like this.…

This one doesn't bother me. In this scenario they're providing a real actual product that presumably they've worked hard on and has value. The free trial is their way of demonstrating that they have faith it's a good product and I'll want it. My credit card is a way of demonstrating that I'm a real customer that will pay if I do turn out to value it. That seems like a reasonably balanced transaction on both sides, no…

> My credit card is a way of demonstrating that I'm a real customer that will pay if I do turn out to value it.

I see your point but there are many problems with this approach.

1. First, I'm not sure if I'll actually pay. It will happen only if your product manages to convince me it is what I need, that there are no bugs, that the support quality is good enough etc.

2. For core functions related to my business, if available, I'll always choose non-SaaS solution over SaaS-based to avoid vendor lock-in and unnecessary dependence. So, the conclusion of (1) and (2) is that you need to convince me to try it and stay. You will increase your chances by making the CC data part skippable.

3. I burned a few times in the past (with shady cancellation polices). Even if you are a honest business, I have no idea what expect. Why don't you let us get into a closer relationship instead of putting your hand in my pocket before we even got properly introduced?

4. Very often I just need to understand what the project is about. Sorry, most marketing descriptions are utter garbage and the exceptions are quite rare. So I really need to try to even consider the purchase. And I do pay - I pay with my time and attention that I give to your project. If you block this possibility, you lose, not me.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#147
post #138
post #136

SaaS founder here (solo self-founded business), trying for years to be ethical and not use any "dark patterns". The article is one-sided and ill-informed, clearly written by someone who never ran a SaaS business and had to balance the books. Those who run a SaaS will know what I'm talking about (for example, the difference between no-credit-card-required trials and credit-card-required trials is about support costs,…

It's hard to run a business ethically so that gives you the right to run it unethically? Business convenience should rank far lower than personal convenience in the world. I will _never_ provide a credit card for a free trial because some companies will charge you at the end of the trial and I don't have time to figure out whether you're one of those. I will _never_ provide my phone number for "security reasons" beca…

> It's hard to run a business ethically so that gives you the right to run it unethically?

The word "ethically" implies a strong moral judgment.

We can discuss ethics of course. For example, why would you think that charging at the end of a free trial is a problem, if this is clearly stated when signing up, notification E-mails are sent before any charge happens, and refunds are provided with no questions asked when necessary? What exactly is "unethical" here?

But my point was that many of these decisions are made not because of evil approach to making more money, but because of very practical and down-to-earth things. For example, requiring credit card information before a free trial reduces your signups considerably, leaving only the most serious potential customers. That lessens your support and onboarding load, because you do not spend time supporting non-customers that would not pay you anyway. Obviously this is not a clear-cut decision, but I'm trying to point out that the basis for making those decisions has nothing to do with morals, ethics or "dark patterns".

That kind of "dark pattern" conspiracy thought implies a lack of understanding of how a SaaS operates. It's very naïve to think that a SaaS business would care about charging for the first month through "dark patterns". If you run a SaaS, you care about long-term customers, retention, LTV and MRR. New signups are often actually a loss over the first months. So grabbing someones $49 through a "dark pattern" makes no sense: it actually lowers your important metrics, and makes you lose money, because that customer will usually contact support.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#148

“Free trials should not require a credit card.” I have a small project where I allow people to auto-translate their web and mobile applications. I’m using Google Translate and DeepL for translating texts from language to another. DeepL charges me $20 for every 500k translated characters. What I supposed to do? I’m getting a bit pissed off because I spotted multiple accounts who registered for the highest plan, used t…

Registering for the highest tier plan definitely shouldn't mean a free trial. Why didn't you charge them upfront the moment they wished to choose a bigger non-free plan?

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#149
Another dark pattern is the use of credits.

You subscribe for $X/month. That buys you Y credits, which you then spend at different rates depending on your usage. Some services are credits per minute, some are fixed credit amounts.

Not only do you have to guess your capacity requirements, you also then have to translate that into a series of tiered variable costs and fixed costs, and translate from credits to currency (often working through bulk purchasing rates) to figure out how much you'll be billed.

I manage a SaaS contract that bills like this and I'm not sure I've ever accurately predicted our bill. Also one of their fixed credit cost items is clearly 10x more expensive than it should be when you actually work through the numbers to see how much it costs.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#150

Forgetting to kill your cloud instances and getting charged isn't a dark pattern, no more than forgetting to fill your gas tank isn't an automotive manufacturing dark pattern, or leaving your water running in the basement sink and forgetting all winter and then having a fight with your husband just before Christmas because the water bill is $1000 and you're the only one that uses the basement utility sink but only in…

I would say it's dark because the platform does not usually place any emphsasis in letting you know it's still there or not. There are no built in safety rails (like a check fuel light) that can help. These platforms are designed to be obtuse.

I'd challenge these being "obtuse", I think it's more likely that they are designing for a different type of customer.

As an engineer working on a production system, everything in code, etc, I don't really want an alert saying "Are you sure you still want to be running your database?". This isn't really a feature that most production systems need.

What I'd like to see is features for experimental work – being able to mark an AWS account, or org, or maybe individual services/resources, as "experimental" and have it auto shut off after some reasonable amount of time, with clear warnings during use (as much as possible) that this is an unsupported experimental service.

Hell, if the time limit/capacity limit was low enough, I feel like these could be a permanent free plan with cloud providers.

The question is: are these customers worth designing features for? I could see why they might not be, although I think it would be beneficial to the industry.

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