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The benefits of not belonging

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Re: The benefits of not belonging

#141

Post by Aloha »

WalterBright wrote: post #135
Aloha wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have natural gifts, talent, to sing, to act, to dance. No amount of technical training will turn a tone deaf person, or a person with a poor natural voice into a great singer.

> You must have natural gifts, talent, to sing, to act, to dance. No, you don't. I was involved in competitive ballroom dancing when I was young. I have way below average talent at it. I only learned the stuff very slowly. But over time, with a lot of time spent practicing, I actually did get tolerably good at it. Then there is singing. Neil Young, Stevie Nicks and Astrud Gilberto are talentless, but hugely successfu…

Astrud Gilberto, Neil Young, and Stevie Nicks, are all extraordinary talented people,

Gilberto is quite talented, both in delivery and as a composer, but her delivery is amazing, and she has songwriting skills, mostly, she had the advantage of being pretty, and a very capable singer, and someone who was novel.

Neil Young is a talented songwriter, and a master guitar player, his vocal skills are secondary to his skills as a songwriter, and guitarist.

Nicks does have an unconventional voice, but with a phenomenal power to her voice. That's just natural.

And Astaire? No one would call him a great singer, but he was one of the best and most talented dancers of his era, the same goes for Gene Kelly, while they were stylistically very different, they were fantastic dancers, their singing abilities were secondary to their abilities as dancers.

The key for all of these, if you have a radio face, and a great voice/talent, you're probably not finding commercial success (not in the modern era - thought there are exceptions), if you have an average voice/talent and a really pretty face/body, you might find commercial success. If you have an average voice/talent and an average face, you're more than likely, not going to find success.

All four examples you listed had something extraordinary about them.

Giberto, Beauty - and an average talet, Young, an extraordinary talent and an average face, Nicks, a unique voice, and an extraordinary face. Astaire, a multi-talent, and a handsome man too.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#142

Post by WalterBright »

Aloha wrote: post #141
WalterBright wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must have natural gifts, talent, to sing, to act, to dance. No, you don't. I was involved in competitive ballroom dancing when I was young. I have way below average talent at it. I only learned the stuff very slowly. But over time, with a lot of time spent practicing, I actually did get tolerably good at it. Then there is singing. Neil Young, Stevie Nicks and Astrud Gilberto are talentless, but hugely successfu…

Astrud Gilberto, Neil Young, and Stevie Nicks, are all extraordinary talented people, Gilberto is quite talented, both in delivery and as a composer, but her delivery is amazing, and she has songwriting skills, mostly, she had the advantage of being pretty, and a very capable singer, and someone who was novel . Neil Young is a talented songwriter, and a master guitar player, his vocal skills are secondary to his skil…

> are all extraordinary talented people

They are not talented singers, but they were able to compensate for that.

Fred Astaire, handsome? I don't think so. He's short and very thin. But he is very elegant and charming, which more than made up for it. He is very aware of his body language and uses that to maximum advantage. If you passed him on the street, you'd never conclude he was handsome.

P.S. I've encountered a few hollywood celebrities off camera. The surprising thing is how ordinary they look without the hair, makeup, lighting, costume, etc.

> a phenomenal power to her voice

Oh come on.

> a unique voice

You may not remember her early reviews - "raspy", "unpleasant". I do. Her first album was a complete flop. The only reason Fleetwood Mac took her on was because the band was on the ropes and Buckingham demanded they give his girlfriend a spot.

> had something extraordinary about them

They all worked their ass off, which you confused with talent.

When I eventually got tolerably good at ballroom dancing, people who didn't know me called me "talented". ROFL.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#143

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #142
Aloha wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astrud Gilberto, Neil Young, and Stevie Nicks, are all extraordinary talented people, Gilberto is quite talented, both in delivery and as a composer, but her delivery is amazing, and she has songwriting skills, mostly, she had the advantage of being pretty, and a very capable singer, and someone who was novel . Neil Young is a talented songwriter, and a master guitar player, his vocal skills are secondary to his skil…

> are all extraordinary talented people They are not talented singers , but they were able to compensate for that. Fred Astaire, handsome? I don't think so. He's short and very thin. But he is very elegant and charming, which more than made up for it. He is very aware of his body language and uses that to maximum advantage. If you passed him on the street, you'd never conclude he was handsome. P.S. I've encountered a…

A singer with a powerful voice is Grace Slick. Compare her singing to Nicks. Nicks knows that doing a cover for White Rabbit would be a bad idea :-)

A singer with great range and control would be Whitney Houston. You won't see Nicks covering her songs, either.

A singer with natural talent is Karen Carpenter. She had little training, yet became a much loved singer.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#144

Post by Aloha »

WalterBright wrote: post #143
WalterBright wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are all extraordinary talented people They are not talented singers , but they were able to compensate for that. Fred Astaire, handsome? I don't think so. He's short and very thin. But he is very elegant and charming, which more than made up for it. He is very aware of his body language and uses that to maximum advantage. If you passed him on the street, you'd never conclude he was handsome. P.S. I've encountered a…

A singer with a powerful voice is Grace Slick. Compare her singing to Nicks. Nicks knows that doing a cover for White Rabbit would be a bad idea :-) A singer with great range and control would be Whitney Houston. You won't see Nicks covering her songs, either. A singer with natural talent is Karen Carpenter. She had little training, yet became a much loved singer.

Yes, those people also have or had talent - and as a side note, Karen Carpenter is grossly under appreciated, like hugely so. Her voice is so pure and clear, and I think it's because of the music she sung. She was also a really great drummer, and she considered herself a drummer first, and a singer second.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#145

Post by Aloha »

WalterBright wrote: post #142
Aloha wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astrud Gilberto, Neil Young, and Stevie Nicks, are all extraordinary talented people, Gilberto is quite talented, both in delivery and as a composer, but her delivery is amazing, and she has songwriting skills, mostly, she had the advantage of being pretty, and a very capable singer, and someone who was novel . Neil Young is a talented songwriter, and a master guitar player, his vocal skills are secondary to his skil…

> are all extraordinary talented people They are not talented singers , but they were able to compensate for that. Fred Astaire, handsome? I don't think so. He's short and very thin. But he is very elegant and charming, which more than made up for it. He is very aware of his body language and uses that to maximum advantage. If you passed him on the street, you'd never conclude he was handsome. P.S. I've encountered a…

I am much too young to remember her (Nicks) reviews, her popularity, most of it, was before I was born.

But I find it interesting that two of the people you highlighted as having no talent are known for being songwriters as much as performers, or actors as much as dancers. In any case Nicks songwriting talents helped propel the groups success, and her vocal abilities were a pivotal component of their sound, and quite arguably a driver of their success.

Incidentally, most great male dancers are shorter, its an aid in becoming great at dance. Both Kelly and Astaire were under 6', 5'7 and 5'9 respectively - yet both were considered handsome men by the standards of their time, in part yes, because of movie magic.

And yes, I grew up near Los Angeles, when Angelia Jolie steps out to Starbucks, she while pretty, does not look like a great actress of the screen, she looks like a nice looking woman stepping out for coffee.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#146

Post by RobertRoberts »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #88
RobertRoberts wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a great idea. I have found that people that don't like being questioned/challenged have something to hide like a con-man or someone selling fake luxury goods.

Spoiler alert: I have done this and they disagree with you. Look, everything is contextual -- your rural area may be superior in some respects to the ones I've been to. But you also shouldn't assume that your experience is universal. Edited to add: if you haven't been to a big city in a while, you should take a trip. They're not generally the hellholes you've been led to believe by right-wing news media.

I've had to drive around riots coming home living in a big city. With life/limb threatened by both police and rioters.

Never once came close in rural America, ever.

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