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Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

nytimes.com

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Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#231

Post by nicoburns »

tomjen3 wrote: post #212
foo92691 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deciding to culture the samples, versus just destroying them without analysis, must be accompanied by an interesting risk/benefit analysis.

Honestly I am more concerned with the transport. If I had found the samples I would consider burning down the lab. Sorry, but the end of Smallpox is one of the greatest medical success stories ever. I am not going to be the one who reopens that particular Pandoras box.

I suspect transporting sealed samples intact is much safer than burning down the lab and hoping they get anihilated.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#232

Post by duskwuff »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #97
dekhn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even correctly labelled bottles can be dangerous. THere was an explosion in my lab when somebody touched a bottle of ether. Please don't make it any harder...

At my high school they found a 40 year old bottle of picric acid. Came with the original lab stock in 1960

I've often wondered why so many basic chemistry labs kept picric acid in stock. I really have to wonder if it was some sort of very slow practical joke against hazmat disposal teams.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#233

Post by klyrs »

mey wrote: post #207
lapetitejort wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between someone coughing through their illness on instagram versus someone covered head to toe with boils. Maybe someone could call it "a somewhat stronger chickenpox" as a method of dismissal, but it'll be difficult.

The amount of people I've heard say "I have a strong immune system" (or some variation), as if that's a defense to COVID, I'm sure would have no problem trotting that out against Smallpox. When we can make Big Bird promoting vaccination a political issue, I expect the amount of people who would reject a smallpox vaccine would be disturbingly high.

The weird thing about that is the age bracket at greatest risk of dying from COVID were actually vaccinated for smallpox. If that came to pass, the elderly would be watching their children and grandchildren die.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#234

Post by molbioguy »

Teever wrote: post #228
koeng wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take that much. If you're good enough at DNA build from oligos, could probably synthesize it with less than a PhD. It is expensive though, and very unlikely that anyone would actually do it in a way that evades the surveillance systems.

Can you tell a layman more about these surveillance systems?

Commercial oligonucleotide synthesis companies will check sequences submitted to them against databases of 'dangerous' or regulated sequences. Flagged sequences won't be synthesized. This was designed to prevent someone from ordering parts of a dangererous virus sequence for assembly of the complete virus.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#235

Post by molbioguy »

ALittleLight wrote: post #143
andbberger wrote: post #100

Thing is, it's ridiculously to create smallpox just from the sequence. A grad student could do it easily. You order DNA in a few parts (the full sequence is one of few things you can't just order), splice them together, transfect it into a cell line and in about a week you're manufacturing smallpox

Is there anything like how copiers won't copy money to stop mail order DNA places from supplying smallpox (and similar)?

Yes. The commercial synthesis companies check and reject sequences that are parts of dangerous viruses.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#236

Post by the8472 »

molbioguy wrote: post #234
Teever wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell a layman more about these surveillance systems?

Commercial oligonucleotide synthesis companies will check sequences submitted to them against databases of 'dangerous' or regulated sequences. Flagged sequences won't be synthesized. This was designed to prevent someone from ordering parts of a dangererous virus sequence for assembly of the complete virus.

Are the machines themselves treated like nuclear proliferation/dual use tech?

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#237

Post by elzbardico »

nicoburns wrote: post #231
tomjen3 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I am more concerned with the transport. If I had found the samples I would consider burning down the lab. Sorry, but the end of Smallpox is one of the greatest medical success stories ever. I am not going to be the one who reopens that particular Pandoras box.

I suspect transporting sealed samples intact is much safer than burning down the lab and hoping they get anihilated.

Nuke'em! Nuke'em from orbit! it's the only way to be sure.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#238

Post by Teever »

molbioguy wrote: post #234
Teever wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell a layman more about these surveillance systems?

Commercial oligonucleotide synthesis companies will check sequences submitted to them against databases of 'dangerous' or regulated sequences. Flagged sequences won't be synthesized. This was designed to prevent someone from ordering parts of a dangererous virus sequence for assembly of the complete virus.

I've assumed as much.

I've also wondered if there is some sort ability to order innocuous sequence A from company a, innocuous sequence B from company b and then in the privacy of your own lab do the DNA synthesis equivalent of A xor B to get dangerous sequence C.

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#239

Post by Teever »

the8472 wrote: post #236
molbioguy wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial oligonucleotide synthesis companies will check sequences submitted to them against databases of 'dangerous' or regulated sequences. Flagged sequences won't be synthesized. This was designed to prevent someone from ordering parts of a dangererous virus sequence for assembly of the complete virus.

Are the machines themselves treated like nuclear proliferation/dual use tech?

And if they are the next logical question is 'are the machines that make the machines themselves treated like like nuclear proliferation/dual use tech?'

Re: Vials labeled ‘smallpox’ are found in Pennsylvania laboratory

#240

Post by elzbardico »

tigershark wrote: post #134
bastardoperator wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is certifably false when it comes to covid and the flu: according to Johns Hopkins University, about 3.1 million people around the world had died of COVID-19 as of April 26, 2021. The flu, meanwhile, kills between 290,000 to 650,000 people every year worldwide, according to the World Health Organization.

These estimates are bullshit. Only in India there are 4.5M excess deaths.

Given the fragility of their population, famine alone from lockdowns could possibly explain that. Also, this 4 millions study was a laughable hedgepog of disparate data and unwarranted assumptions, basically pseudo-science from economists.
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