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I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

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61–70 of 190 posts

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that when you're analyzing SaaS transactions for a year (full time), you see a lot more data than we more-select-few-who-can-discern do.

You forget this is HN, where software engineers will go off on tangent talking about how "they could have designed the airplane rotor to not crash" or something equally ridiculous. Everyone here is an expert at everything, because they wrote a blog once, or since Paul Graham is perceived to be an expert on everything, they can be too.

> since Paul Graham is perceived to be an expert on everything, they can be too.

ROFL.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#62
post #11

I forgot the AWS password once for an account with only one S3 bucket. I did the recovery procedure but they wanted to verify my identity using my document. I send them my ID, which was with a different address from my account information. They didn't accept my ID and I wasn't able to stop the service and the recurring payment. Fortunately I registered my payment with a prepaid credit card, so was easy to empty the c…

Some banks make this much easier by allowing you to spin up virtual cards w/ daily spend limits on them.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#63
post #49

Of all the nasty things somebody can do with billing, I'm surprised the author leads with card-upfront trials. "Free trials should not require a credit card." This is opinion presented as fact. This is not a dark pattern. Totally unrestricted free trials are wonderful, you've invested a ton in your product and you want a prospective customer to experience everything. But there are legions of abusers and bad actors of…

Dont you think users with malintent abuse the platform irrespective of whether a card is on file or not?

Credit cards act as a "cost" of sorts. Credit cards are a limited resource, it is not free to acquire more credit cards. By requiring a valid credit card you are basically relying upon the verification that credit card issuers do to prevent unlimited abuse.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#64
This is a very cynical take. Not all of these things are designed to trick you.

For example, requiring a credit card for a free trial is to prevent free trial abuse. A normal person can only get so many valid credit card numbers, assuming you can detect burner cards (which for the most part the CC companies will happily help you do).

Yes, a good company will notify you that a trial is going paid, and a great company will require an affirmative action on your part, but the main goal isn't to trick you and hope you forget.

Also, the part about not prorating costs if you use less resources. Usually you get a discount for paying up front. The reason you get a discount is because it allows the company to do more efficient resource planning, a savings they pass on to you. If they allowed you to cut back, you haven't upheld your part of the deal. A big company can absorb the loss, but a small one can't.

Yes, some companies do these are dark patterns to increase their profits. But most have some pretty good non-nefarious reasons to act like they do.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#66
post #19

> Free trials should not require a credit card. I'm not in business to provide services to people who want stuff for free permanently. They complain on forums, raise stink and spend nearly no money. They are not my customers. I always ask for a credit card for a free trial. The fewer non-customers signup, the better it is for me.

While I kind of understand your point of view and not all businesses are equal, a free trial is not stuff for free permanently. You should be confident that your product will be able to make the customer willingly add their credit card after their trial is over if you are indeed providing them with a useful service.

I agree, and was going to posit the same argument, however, a credit card is a useful way to get unique info. If someone signs up to free trail without something like a CC, instead using an email address, then they just have to register a new email address to get further free service. Although I am sure there are alternatives that I havent considered.

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#68
post #4

Subscription-based software is already a dark pattern.

Our software is subscription-based, and our customers love it. They get a predictable cost over time, rather than large costs every now and then. We can afford to include features that otherwise might not be justifiable in terms of new sales.

On the flip side, one of our competitors who hasn't switched has been struggling for years and a recent new version almost killed them off as many customers didn't feel they could justify the $10-20k or so to buy the license to the new version.

A key part of our success is that the subscription price scales linearly with customer activity. There's a fixed base price per active user, and in addition there's a cost associated with certain actions. This means that the subscription price scales with the customers activity and hence income. If they have a slow month they have less income but pay less, if they have an active month they have higher income but they also pay more.

FWIW our software is primarily installed on premise, but we do offer hosted service as well (base cost is different for the two cases).

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#69
post #64

This is a very cynical take. Not all of these things are designed to trick you. For example, requiring a credit card for a free trial is to prevent free trial abuse. A normal person can only get so many valid credit card numbers, assuming you can detect burner cards (which for the most part the CC companies will happily help you do). Yes, a good company will notify you that a trial is going paid, and a great company…

Does Stripe detect something like privacy.com?

Re: I analyzed SaaS billing dark patterns

#70
> Companies waste tens of thousands of dollars every year on SaaS products they subscribe to but don’t use. And when I say “don’t use,” I literally mean zero logins for paid users during a subscription period.

We have a SaaS product, and we see that as well. Usually our sales folks will have a look every now and then and see if there's a lack of activity.

Almost always it's the result of someone quitting or losing their job, and our software gets lost in the handover of responsibilities. I've heard of several cases where sales has effectively re-sold our software more than 3-4 times to the same division in a company over the years.

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