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I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

freddiedeboer.substack.com

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Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#111

Post by zepto »

watwut wrote: post #45
mrtranscendence wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know deBoer from Adam, mind you, so I'm only going off the article as written. That said, while it's not strictly a lie to communicate deBoer's actions without conveying how psychosis played a role, it seems to leave out important context in favor of the presumption that he's simply an asshole. My assignment of credibility to deBoer could be substantially colored by learning of his psychosis and current effor…

When DeBoer calls it a lie, he is doing what he complains about - does not care about motivation or context in which that statement was given.

What context are you accusing him of leaving out?

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#112

Post by zepto »

tptacek wrote: post #65
scythe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lie is intentional. Regardless of the falsehood, it is not a lie if you believe it when you say it. But it is certainly misleading to make these claims about deBoer's actions without context. If this is intentional, then it is intentionally misleading. I wonder if there's a word for that.

Whatever it is, we should all be able to agree that it's not "unambiguous".

What DeBoer describes is unambiguously a lie.

Whether some individual is actually doing what he describes has a lot more room for ambiguity.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#113

Post by zepto »

watwut wrote: post #63
weeblewobble wrote: post #37

For context, here's Freddie's contemporaneous apology, which he has not only deleted from his website but from the Wayback Machine as well (sorry for the weird site, only copy I could find): https://www.falserapetimeline.org/false-rape-5950.pdf Some excerpts: "Crucially, despite my mental state at the time, I knew when I sent those tweets that they were untrue. I am responsible for having made those false allegations…

And here is Malcolm Harris now - he retweeted that recently. https://mobile.twitter.com/BigMeanInternet/status/1372530096... He is not appreciating what DeBoer does now and don't think he follows amends he promised.

Malcolm Harris doesn’t say what commitments DeBoer is breaking. He would be more credible if he did.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#114

Post by rfrey »

kjs3 wrote: post #106

But I do hope people will think deeply, about the nature of forgiveness in our current culture, about mental illness, and about a disorder I did not choose and which has resulted in me setting my life on fire more times than I can count. I've been on the receiving end of someone with mental health issues slagging me undeservedly who at some point got the help they needed. And part of that was asking 'forgiveness' fro…

Your "reads like" summary is a mischaracterization of the piece in my opinion. He's addressing those he did not directly harm, not Harris; he does not say people should "just let it go" and certainly does not say they are bad people if they do not; and he does not say people should never tell anyone about his misdeeds.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#115

Post by newbie789 »

unreal37 wrote: post #75
worik wrote: post #33

> I have asked that people consider that I deserve neither total condemnation nor total exoneration. This. In a lot of circles I move there is a tendency to "total condemnation". We can be better to each other. When we do not deserve it is when we need it the most. Peace, love, respect foster peace, love and respect. "Total condemnation" might make the condemner have some temporary good feelings, but does no good for…

Also, "To those of you who are not people I harmed in my psychotic episode in August 2017… what is it you think I owe you?" There seems to be this tendency that people who only learned about something 5 minutes ago get outrage and demand retribution. Like it's a reflex. The mob has vigilante tendencies. Let's go write an email to someone's employer and demand that they fire them. Millions of people band together and…

Hey what are your thoughts on race science? As someone that’s tasked themself with defending this guy from “the mob”, what are some of his stances on race and intelligence that you like the most?

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#116

Post by xbar »

I think he denies his own agency and is angry about it, but also he is angry that someone else tried to assign a particular agency to him.

Fair enough. I revoke my opinion that he had any agency. Further, I revoke the my notion that at any moment he had agency over his actions, including the drafting of this particular article.

It is a horrible disease that takes away the I-ness of I. I am in relationships with the deeply mentally diseased. It takes all I have.

In the case of Mr. deBoer, the most energy I can muster henceforth is to actively ignore everything so that I do not have to unwind everything later. I will save my willingness to unwind my trust for the people in my life who truly need it from me. Mr. deBoer certainly has enough attention without mine.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#118

Post by lliamander »

xbar wrote: post #116

I think he denies his own agency and is angry about it, but also he is angry that someone else tried to assign a particular agency to him. Fair enough. I revoke my opinion that he had any agency. Further, I revoke the my notion that at any moment he had agency over his actions, including the drafting of this particular article. It is a horrible disease that takes away the I-ness of I. I am in relationships with the d…

He is explicitly admiting that he has agency and culpability. How did you come to the exact opposite conclusion?

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#119

Post by MarcoZavala »

irishloop wrote: post #53
treebot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a pessimistic outlook. You can find inner peace even though you're being harassed.

I don't know, if you hear about the accounts of the parents of children killed in Sandy Hook, I don't think inner peace was available. Many had to move or go into hiding. Imagine, after losing a child in such a horrific way, that you also need to somehow start an entirely new life in a strange place because strangers think you're a crisis actor and threaten your life. Externalities matter.

No post body was provided.

Re: I would like closure, but I'll take honesty

#120

Post by kjs3 »

rfrey wrote: post #114
kjs3 wrote: post #106

But I do hope people will think deeply, about the nature of forgiveness in our current culture, about mental illness, and about a disorder I did not choose and which has resulted in me setting my life on fire more times than I can count. I've been on the receiving end of someone with mental health issues slagging me undeservedly who at some point got the help they needed. And part of that was asking 'forgiveness' fro…

Your "reads like" summary is a mischaracterization of the piece in my opinion. He's addressing those he did not directly harm, not Harris; he does not say people should "just let it go" and certainly does not say they are bad people if they do not; and he does not say people should never tell anyone about his misdeeds.

Everyone has an opinion. I know who he's tacitly 'addressing'. My opinion is it's an indirection; appeal to the mob to not address the actual subject. Like the archive being cleared of evidence (by 'someone'...no proof and all that). Or 'leaving social media', by posting to social media. And after pages of self flagellation mixed with a thick layer of 'but, you know, couldn't be helped', he ends the whole thing with What do you want from me? which certainly reads to me like "let it go". To me, it's a performance piece. But there is certainly room for other readings...we'll have to agree to disagree.
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