Daddy isn’t coming back • Hacker News Board

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#401

Post by joconde » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

c22 wrote: post #241

jkljkljkl1 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Involuntary commitment from mental health is a min. 72 hours here, but I think you can be in and out of a drunk tank faster than that, which is usually just a few hours to sober up. I could see a bail hearing happening quick enough that you get in and out before 72 hours, but I don't know how common that is.

It's true that you'll be stuck in the mental hospital for at least a week (those are 72 business hours). I couldn't afford bail, though, so I was stuck in jail for 3 months[0]. There were plenty of other inmates there in similar situations. YMMV. [0] That's how long it took for me to get a court date at which point I was released with time served (2 weeks). Getting out of the mental hospital never even required a law…

Why in hell are there things called "bail" and "time served" that apply to mental treatment? Do they think it's some kind of crime that has to be punished?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#402

Post by themacguffinman » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #366

themacguffinman wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh yes it is being infringed. If I steal money from you against your will that one time, would you be okay with it on account of the fact that you willingly gave me money 99 other times? I've never heard of rights being only applicable 99% of the time.

That's not a good analogy, because if I steal money off you today, you'll be angry with me tomorrow, and indefinitely into the future. You are against me stealing from you 100% of the time. Consider instead the case where you're a recovering gambling addict who's asked me to make sure you don't gamble again. One night I find you in the pokies room, so I take your wallet and tell you I'll give it back tomorrow morning…

So if someone consistently tells you that they want to die, if they consistently get angry at you and authorities for intervening, you're saying that you'll support their right to self-determination?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#403

Post by themacguffinman » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

mkl wrote: post #348

themacguffinman wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok then: if the 38yo husband took his increasingly unaffordable meds of choice and told you in a period of lucidity that he wants to die rather than suffer a lifetime of violent psychosis, drug-induced delirium and likely debt, or as you might call it "any quality of life is irredeemably lost", would you let him? Do you have another excuse for why he still cannot make that choice for himself, why he will never be abl…

> increasingly unaffordable meds Where did you get that idea? This happened in the UK, which has a public health system.

The article mentions that the man preferred treatment and his choice of meds from private insurance that eventually ran out. I know the UK has a public health system, that was the system that he died in.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#404

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #364

anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Top post on HN discouraging use of suicide prevention hotlines. The fuck is wrong with you people.

[deleted]

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#405

Post by trevyn » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

cloudedcordial wrote: post #400

trevyn wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you offered a free apartment where they can live alone?

One of my friends actually paid upfront for a short-term semi-private accommodation. They did not stay for the whole time, asked for a refund of the remaining balance and left. My friend has been mad because they took the money.

I’m curious, did they give a reason for leaving?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#406

Post by strken » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

themacguffinman wrote: post #402

strken wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a good analogy, because if I steal money off you today, you'll be angry with me tomorrow, and indefinitely into the future. You are against me stealing from you 100% of the time. Consider instead the case where you're a recovering gambling addict who's asked me to make sure you don't gamble again. One night I find you in the pokies room, so I take your wallet and tell you I'll give it back tomorrow morning…

So if someone consistently tells you that they want to die, if they consistently get angry at you and authorities for intervening, you're saying that you'll support their right to self-determination?

Yes. If someone demonstrates a consistent determination to die, when asked at random times, and over a long enough time period to rule out episodic mental health issues, and they've made appropriate arrangements for their family, I don't think they should be stopped from killing themselves.

I disagree with the claim that many suicides are like that, I don't think the suicide from the article was like that, and the word "consistently" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#407

Post by mkl » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

themacguffinman wrote: post #403

mkl wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly unaffordable meds Where did you get that idea? This happened in the UK, which has a public health system.

The article mentions that the man preferred treatment and his choice of meds from private insurance that eventually ran out. I know the UK has a public health system, that was the system that he died in.

Hmm, okay, I see what you're saying. There should have been affordable medication available, but not necessarily his particular choice.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#408

Post by themacguffinman » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #406

themacguffinman wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if someone consistently tells you that they want to die, if they consistently get angry at you and authorities for intervening, you're saying that you'll support their right to self-determination?

Yes. If someone demonstrates a consistent determination to die, when asked at random times, and over a long enough time period to rule out episodic mental health issues, and they've made appropriate arrangements for their family, I don't think they should be stopped from killing themselves. I disagree with the claim that many suicides are like that, I don't think the suicide from the article was like that, and the wo…

Appreciate your honesty and consistency. Likewise, I think the phrase "mental health issue" does a lot of heavy lifting for you. I don't think many mental health issues disqualify you from making a self-respecting decision over your own body. Few truly want to impose such extended blanket restrictions on other life or death decisions like critical treatment-refusal, military action, many types of self-destructive behavior or (controversially) abortion. Something about suicide brings out people's inner autocrat.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#409

Post by cloudedcordial » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

trevyn wrote: post #405

cloudedcordial wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my friends actually paid upfront for a short-term semi-private accommodation. They did not stay for the whole time, asked for a refund of the remaining balance and left. My friend has been mad because they took the money.

I’m curious, did they give a reason for leaving?

I don't know if they gave a reason for leaving. My friend found out after they got the refund.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#410

Post by chris_wot » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

gattilorenz wrote: post #368

chris_wot wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was very badly affected by the Australian medical system, let me just say that what happens to you in the system will almost certainly traumatize you as much as the event that led up to it. It's very easy for someone to say otherwise, unless they have experienced it first hand. Have you?

No judgment or anything else implied, but I can't help thinking that the alternative might be you not being here to tell this. Would you find this a better option, now? It's hard to imagine (for me).

Somewhat ironically, the person I spoke to actually calmed me down enough to allow me to go and call on a friend. By the time the authorities arrived I was in a much better state. All they did was waste resources and reintroduce my negative thoughts.

I called them to be anonymous and not disturb my family, so I could get into a calmer state where I could get help from my loved ones. They utterly failed.