It's the same story every ~2 years since at least 10 years now... It's mostly a way to negotiate Microsoft prices down.
German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
181–190 of 368 posts
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#182MS Office was so much more functional and nicer to use than libreoffice when I last checked.
I didn't check the latest LO version but I agree. LO shines on import export but the UI lags, the functionalities are limited. Even macros are weird compared to VBA which is sad. FOSS community needs to gather up on this.
And what's worse, lot of functionaly that appears to exist turns out to be broken when you actually try to use it. Basic things like pivot tables, conditional formatting or automatic data import at regular intervals (from a file) are ridiculously broken in LO, and have been so for many years. Feels as if no-one's actually using it beyond a simple document viewer.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#183This is the kind of story that would have been cheered on on Slashdot twenty years ago. But here we are in 2021 and a major organization having the temerity to not pay the Microsoft tax is newsworthy. This is not what a free market looks like.
It’s not true that there is a MS tax on office software - you can now run Google Suite, so there is at least one major competitor.
One major competitor who's also a massive corporation and has an even more questionable approach to handling user data.
So while it might not be a pure "MS tax" anymore, in a way there still is a corporate monopoly tax.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used Linux full-time at home for 10 years, and now at work (in an enterprise). For the most part, it works well and doesn't require a whole lot more support. The LTT video hit one specific packaging bug in PopOS that was present for only an hour, and was unfortunate. But to judge so much on that is unreasonable, shit happens in software engineering, it'd be like trying to use Facebook in the window where it was…
As someone who used to be an avid linux desktop user, but has subsequently moved away from it and is interested in the current ecosystem with a view to maybe coming back, what would you say is a good entry point? I used to run Ubuntu back in the day if that helps. I'm curious to get a sense of how much has changed.
You have so much choice! That's where Linux scores.
In my way of seeing it, there are 2 main classes of distribution at the moment:
1) Rolling update distros like Arch. 2) Distributions which offer "releases" some of which are long-term ones that don't change much except for security fixes e.g. Ubuntu.
I love the rolling distributions like ARCH and its derivatives because I hate having to do the once-every-2-years "big upgrade" that you get if you want to have a modern linux.
You pay for that with the potential for slightly more breakage from time to time (that is usually quickly fixed).
This suits my personality perfectly but you might just want a safe drive and you'd choose one of the Ubuntu-derivates and download the Long Term Support release. You could be experimental within containers or virtual machines and benefit from having a more robust host.
NB. I wouldn't waste time on Fedora - it's not too stable AND releases age quickly so I found it a pain to deal with.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Better UI ? Ten years ago, yes. Now the UI in Office 365 is a disaster. And yes, some german politicians are very sensitive when money starts to flow.
Whether it's a disaster or not it's subjective. I think you'll find many people prefer how it is now, including the useful new features like xlookup. Either way, it's what people are used to, and changing everyone's well established memory will be very difficult and expensive.
> Either way, it's what people are used to
The only reason people are used to it is because MS has spend decades, and plenty of money, getting their foot into pretty much every IT education of relevance.
Free student/teacher versions are just one example of that, which then leads to MS products being everywhere, and consequently MS products are what most people get taught on in most educational settings.
This doesn't just apply to Office software, it applies to whole operating systems and is what keeps the MS monopoly entrenched to this day.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has been said ad infinitum. My experience is that Windows works, but very poorly. It is slow, hangs, steals my data and treats me like an abusive parent treats a toddler. But for me, Linux doesn't work. Or maybe it works 90%. Something's always broken, and a different thing is broken with each update. It requires constant tinkering. One flawless and amazing experience I had was working on Linux at a medium-sized…
What exactly does not work? What Distro were you using? Serious question because my experience is that I install Linux Mint and everything just works. Updates never break anything. Why should they? The only arguable pain point is maybe graphics drivers but honestly installing proprietary ones is just a few clicks these days. Plus you don't need them for office work anyway. (Maybe also some power saving features on ce…
Ubuntu, The system will only display 4 letters per line.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1330100/only-the-first-four-...
As one recent example. For me MS works much better than Ubuntu on a day to day basis. I would much prefer a Linux, but I want one that gets out of the way and allows me to do work instead of hand hold it.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not true that there is a MS tax on office software - you can now run Google Suite, so there is at least one major competitor.
One major competitor who's also a massive corporation and has an even more questionable approach to handling user data. So while it might not be a pure "MS tax" anymore, in a way there still is a corporate monopoly tax.
Why is it that nobody can compete? I've tried various versions of excel/word clones and none seem to operate as well despite it seeming relatively straightforward
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#188Again? Must be time to renegotiate their MS Office contract.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#189This is the kind of story that would have been cheered on on Slashdot twenty years ago. But here we are in 2021 and a major organization having the temerity to not pay the Microsoft tax is newsworthy. This is not what a free market looks like.
>This is not what a free market looks like
What do you mean by this? Companies choosing the best option rather than the cheapest option is perfectly compatible with a free market. MS Office has been designed for decades to be easy to manage and support and has plenty of training resources available. LibreOffice still has plenty of rough edges in those areas. As an individual user, maybe those are worth overlooking for you. At the scale of a company where time is money, it's much more important to get something reliable.
Also, an unregulated free market always turns into a monopoly (or at best an oligopoly) eventually. It's been shown time and time again.
Re: German state planning to switch 25,000 PCs to LibreOffice
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
What "enterprise software" is needed at a public administration? Almost all of it is custom ordered, so Linux compatibility can be a part of the requirements. Outlook is a dumpster fire, and there are perfectly fine alternatives. Very few people actually need the full might of Excel, and you can always RemoteApp it to them, and have the rest use Libre Office. Or heck, provide them with actual tooling better fit for t…
> Very few people actually need the full might of Excel How's the groupware situation on Linux? Mail, calendars, adding shared meeting rooms, etc.
On Linux you can use a number of thick or web clients for any sort of groupware - Exchange, Office 365, OnlyOffice, Nextcloud, Collabora, Zoho something?