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Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

edwardsnowden.substack.com

91–100 of 266 posts

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#91
post #41

You do not extend tolerance to those who would deny your humanity. Want to know how to fight back against authoritarianism? Look to the folks who've been fighting against racism for (literally) hundreds of years. Racism in the US is just fascism that hasn't hit white people yet.

"You do not extend tolerance to those who would deny your humanity." And this is how fascism starts

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Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#92
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You do not extend tolerance to those who would deny your humanity. Straight outta Mein Kampf

Not quite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

The premise for Hitler's hatred of the Jews was that they view non Jews as cattle who exist solely to serve the Jews, and were subverting German culture to achieve this end.

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#93

Perhaps there is some definition of freedom in mathematical terms in which the total scope of decision-making autonomy is maximized over all citizens? The barbarian example would yield a low tally, as the leaders of a hoard are "free," but their subordinates have little decision-making capacity. In terms of the limitations of personal freedoms, the boundary might lie where the diminishment of others' freedoms exceeds…

there is sort-of, it's called utilitarianism. However, maths isn't a magical cure-all - the ethical dilemma is just shifted onto how you quantise your ethical problems.

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#94
post #65
post #56

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So... is Snowden on the right or left? Think carefully before you answer. If he's on the left, why are you responding negatively to his concern for cancel culture by attacking the right? If he's on the right, then perhaps there is more cancelling on the right than you want to admit?

> So... is Snowden on the right or left?

Why is it so important that he identified by one of those?

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#95
post #68

> building out a similar technological and political infrastructure, using similar the justifications of countering terrorism, misinformation, sedition, and subjective “social harms.” FWIW, this seems to be a common thread in many countries apart from China and the US. “Sedition”, for example, has become the stick to use for any kind of dissent uttered in India over the last few years (a lot more so compared to befor…

Oh, let's start with a shorter snippet. Something banal and absurd, easy to relate to, that shows where these 'sedition' things tend to go:

If you cheer on the Pakistani cricket team, that's sedition.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/28/sport/india-arrest-kashmiri-m...

'On Wednesday, Uttar Pradesh Police tweeted that five people had been arrested in incidents throughout the state after "anti-national elements used disrespectful words against the Indian cricket team and made anti-India comments which disrupted peace."'

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#97
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You do not extend tolerance to those who would deny your humanity. Straight outta Mein Kampf

Update: I misspoke. Hitler absolutely accused Jews of treating Christian Germans of being lesser than themselves while arguing that Germans like himself were superior to everyone and everyone else was subhuman. ------- Have you actually read Mein Kampf? Hitler never claimed the Jews were denying his humanity nor had German Jews ever denied the humanity of Christian Jews. Hitler on the other hand did indeed deny the h…

Have YOU ever read Mein Kampf? The central thesis is that Jews view non Jews as sub human servants.

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#98
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You do not extend tolerance to those who would deny your humanity. Straight outta Mein Kampf

Update: I misspoke. Hitler absolutely accused Jews of treating Christian Germans of being lesser than themselves while arguing that Germans like himself were superior to everyone and everyone else was subhuman. ------- Have you actually read Mein Kampf? Hitler never claimed the Jews were denying his humanity nor had German Jews ever denied the humanity of Christian Jews. Hitler on the other hand did indeed deny the h…

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Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#99
I'd argue that before freedom can be a goal or a direction it's necessarily an identity first. When we think of freedom as an external thing, it's a reaction that defines itself as inferiorized to the thing one is becoming free from.

I like Snowden's thinking and think he's one of the greatest exemplars of courage alive today, and not to use his personal email newsletter as a foil, but I think he missed some key depth.

The crux I think of the culture war is whether the ideal of freedom originates from identity - or is the effect of experience. This crux is related to the tension between individual and collective good, but not defined by it. I think the line is deeper.

The peculiar aspect of viewing freedom as an identity is it necessitates - if not a belief in the divine, at least a presumption of it. If you believe freedom is an effect of circumstances, it relates you to the material world as being subject of it. If you see freedom as a state of existence or an axiom of being, it has to originate from somewhere, which implies it was made or granted - and not by humanity.

This is why the culture war isn't intellectual or about ideas or a specific "religion," but it is the exact same kind of religious conflict we've recorded for milennia, because it's over beliefs about identity. "Attacks" or subjugation of freedom isn't an attack on an ideal, they become an attack on "free people."

However, the complement or opposition to this free identity is the one where people identify as un-free, or as subjects to forces - unfortunately for us all, those forces are of the freedom-identified. Unlike freedom, this view doesn't come from divine presumption, but material physical expereince, either of real direct oppression and abuse, or via the logic of ideas in language. Their belief comes from things that mostly happened to them. It's a founding axiom of their identity, where your first words are for things that reflect your identity as a subject, slave, or oppressed. This identity requires an earthly oppressor, independent of whether it is real or mostly symbolic. For all my criticisms of it, it's a consequence of lived experience and not faith in some divine force.

Anyway, into heady territory here, but on this freedom/culture issue I think we've tried everything else. If we're doing pithy aphorisms, I'd say instead that identities are irreconcilable. We can co-exist, but we cannot fully know or understand each other, even if the greatest thing in life is the little bits we do get to know and understand about others.

I'd say that recognizing freedom as those parts of others we existentially cannot understand and treating it as unexplored opportunity for growth goes a long way to reconciling the interests of those who identify as free, and those who do not.

Re: Freedom is not a goal, but a direction

#100
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... is Snowden on the right or left? Think carefully before you answer. If he's on the left, why are you responding negatively to his concern for cancel culture by attacking the right? If he's on the right, then perhaps there is more cancelling on the right than you want to admit?

> So... is Snowden on the right or left? Why is it so important that he identified by one of those?

It's only important in the context of somebody responding to his writing by claiming the right have no right to be concerned about cancel culture.
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