Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Finding Your Swagger

kevinyien.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 92 posts

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#41

Post by [deleted] »

bambax wrote: post #30
nothis wrote: post #14

I'm sorry, but I can't connect the dots in that story. 1) He did great (like, there's actual metrics mentioned) 2) Others wanted a different direction (even though he did great?) and didn't tell him 3) They excluded him from meetings 4) They fired him 5) He blamed not "re-centering" himself In the notes, he mentions that one of his later decisions (splitting engineering) was a bad choice. So isn't that the core of it…

Yes, it's quite obscure. The meeting with the COO that asks for a brain dump and then fire him the morning after is the most troubling. Did the COO want to get what was on his mind so the company would lose nothing by firing him? Or was he utterly disappointed about said mind? I really don't understand what any of this has to do with swagger. Yet it is true you have to find it, and it's not obvious. Many times, what…

[deleted]

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#42

Post by mattcwilson »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

I appreciate the honesty of the post. For myself, I don’t think having “swagger” is particularly constructive. Ego is a mind-killer. It is selling smoke. I’m quite good at what I do. In some things, I am very good; but at many, many other things, I still have a lot to learn, and in other areas, it’s best I stay out of the kitchen, entirely. In the areas in which I excel, I often exude great confidence, which is somet…

The unegotistical, realistic, quiet, but firm self-confidence you’re describing seems to me to be exactly what the author’s labelling “swagger.” Is this maybe just a terminology quibble?

> What is swagger? For me, it's knowing what you're good at and acting accordingly — earned confidence. But it's not arrogance. Your behavior and ability are in lock step.

> Be assertive and opinionated even when you aren't as sure. Go back to having strong beliefs. Know your beliefs. Hold onto them.

> Don’t be an asshole about it, but push for what you need and don’t give in to every request.

Separately, and speaking as a current manager: the last thing I want is for the people on my team to just blithely go along, “just following orders,” if (when, and probably frequently) I’m asking for something shortsighted, ill-considered, or just plain stupid. I crave feedback from the talented experts on my team because it helps make sure we’re not suffering from blind spots, silos, or echo chambers. Like you’re saying: experience has taught me that I always have something to learn.

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#43

Post by [deleted] »

ilteris wrote: post #38
xyzzy123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly it sounds like a failure to connect with everyone else and read the room. This is "getting kicked out of the tribe" 101 and people are normally very sensitive to this. But as a new leader it's hard to understand all your status relationships (and that the happiness of the people under you on the org chart affects the happiness of the people listed above you). You can disagree with everyone else, you can be ove…

I have a similar problem in my workplace. I have a hard time reading what's going on in the room or the relationships between ups and downs. It's exhausting. Is there a playbook for this type of thing?

[deleted]

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#44

Post by strogonoff »

From more of an engineering standpoint, those meetings with the COO seemed like textbook knowledge transfer to me, except the context (that the subject was not made aware of the nature of this event and his upcoming firing) reflects really bad on this company’s management.

It reads as if the upper management treated the employee as a highly unpredictable individual who would undermine the company out of spite. They might have thought: if the author were to be informed in advance about potential firing, he would become… “problematic”, hold a grudge, sabotage knowledge transfer, leak something, or use the advance notice for some diversion and future legal action.

On the face of it, this would point to insecurity or nearly-psychopathic tendencies in the employee—but, I suspect, it actually points to somebody in upper management who, probably due to childhood trauma, operates this way in life and hurts others by presuming they’re the same.

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#45

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

mattcwilson wrote: post #42
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

I appreciate the honesty of the post. For myself, I don’t think having “swagger” is particularly constructive. Ego is a mind-killer. It is selling smoke. I’m quite good at what I do. In some things, I am very good; but at many, many other things, I still have a lot to learn, and in other areas, it’s best I stay out of the kitchen, entirely. In the areas in which I excel, I often exude great confidence, which is somet…

The unegotistical, realistic, quiet, but firm self-confidence you’re describing seems to me to be exactly what the author’s labelling “swagger.” Is this maybe just a terminology quibble? > What is swagger? For me, it's knowing what you're good at and acting accordingly — earned confidence. But it's not arrogance. Your behavior and ability are in lock step. > Be assertive and opinionated even when you aren't as sure.…

You are correct. I just don't like the term "swagger." Like I said, I really appreciated the article, and its tone.

It's just that words matter. In my experience, many folks run with the first dictionary listing, and ignore any nuances.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swagger

I prefer "confidence."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confidence

And, to your second point, one of the reasons that I was a good manager, was because I actively solicited and valued pushback from my employees. This was seldom a luxury that I was given, by my superiors.

And, as a "gentleman of a certain age," I'll lay odds that a big reason for ageism in tech, is because most tech managers don't want to hire people that may have the ability, backbone, and judgment to push back on badly-formed strategies. I managed a "tiger team" of experienced C++ engineers. I had to pay attention to them, and treat them with respect.

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#46

Post by khafra »

ilteris wrote: post #38
xyzzy123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly it sounds like a failure to connect with everyone else and read the room. This is "getting kicked out of the tribe" 101 and people are normally very sensitive to this. But as a new leader it's hard to understand all your status relationships (and that the happiness of the people under you on the org chart affects the happiness of the people listed above you). You can disagree with everyone else, you can be ove…

I have a similar problem in my workplace. I have a hard time reading what's going on in the room or the relationships between ups and downs. It's exhausting. Is there a playbook for this type of thing?

The book Moral Mazes is the best guide I know of. The basic takeaway is that if you're in middle management, it's already too late, you poor sucker.

https://hbr.org/1983/09/moral-mazes-bureaucracy-and-manageri... https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/moral-mazes

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#47

Post by [deleted] »

ilteris wrote: post #38
xyzzy123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly it sounds like a failure to connect with everyone else and read the room. This is "getting kicked out of the tribe" 101 and people are normally very sensitive to this. But as a new leader it's hard to understand all your status relationships (and that the happiness of the people under you on the org chart affects the happiness of the people listed above you). You can disagree with everyone else, you can be ove…

I have a similar problem in my workplace. I have a hard time reading what's going on in the room or the relationships between ups and downs. It's exhausting. Is there a playbook for this type of thing?

[deleted]

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#48

Post by sunir »

tibbar wrote: post #3

Management failed him. Getting slowly shut out for months, one bit of cryptic feedback from the CEO, and then fired a few months later without warning? This is how a company destroys its talent base.

I’ll take it further. Who cares about the company? It’s how people destroy human beings.

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#49

Post by simonbarker87 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #45
mattcwilson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unegotistical, realistic, quiet, but firm self-confidence you’re describing seems to me to be exactly what the author’s labelling “swagger.” Is this maybe just a terminology quibble? > What is swagger? For me, it's knowing what you're good at and acting accordingly — earned confidence. But it's not arrogance. Your behavior and ability are in lock step. > Be assertive and opinionated even when you aren't as sure.…

You are correct. I just don't like the term "swagger." Like I said, I really appreciated the article, and its tone. It's just that words matter. In my experience, many folks run with the first dictionary listing, and ignore any nuances. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swagger I prefer "confidence." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confidence And, to your second point, one of the reasons that I wa…

This is something that military officer training (at least in the UK) teaches very well. You may have a degree and have gone to Sandhurst but woe betide any junior office who doesn’t listen to their experienced NCOs.

Re: Finding Your Swagger

#50

Post by roland35 »

avtolik wrote: post #5

Guys, you talk about his previous company and boss, but I don't think this was the focus of the blog post.

It's good to be resilient, but I think it is also important to see the example workplace as what it is too. It is just as much a factor in this story.
Post reply on HN