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To my fellow Hacker News contributors

raganwald.posterous.com

91–100 of 106 posts

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#91

I try not to pay attention to articles about Apple here, because it really does bring out some strong emotions. Logic goes out the window and everything reads like a love sonnet written by a retarded monkey. It's stressful and unfun. Reddit solved this problem, kind-of-sort-of, with subreddits. If all you care about is programming, visit the programming subreddit. Unfortunately, the comments on Reddit are extremely l…

> Reddit solved this problem, kind-of-sort-of, with subreddits. If all you care about is programming, visit the programming subreddit. Unfortunately, the comments on Reddit are extremely low-quality (even on /r/programming), so it's not actually worth visiting. But maybe this could save HN for a few more months. I think there's a very simple solution to this problem. First of all, I feel that Reddit has an excellent…

Metafilter charges you $5 to gain the ability to post. It's a little better than Reddit, but ultimately the discussion software is so bad it's hard to tell if this works or not. Threaded comments encourage back-and-forth and nitpicking over details. Sometimes these become flamewars when people start calling other people names. On the other side of the coin, there is flat commenting. That tends to become one-liners and "like!" instead of anything valuable.

The problem with community sites is that communities are not good at enforcing what they want. Stack Overflow is a good example of this: ask a question like "What's your favorite food to eat while programming", and you get a million karma points. Solve someone's super-obscure bug and provide a detailed answer, you get one or two points.

I think my ultimate solution will be to return to blogging, and when I read an interesting article, write a detailed response. Then I will ignore the rest of the discussion.

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#92
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only works for top-level threads though. A bad response to a highly-rated OP will continue to hang out near the top of the page. It's a genuine problem, what do you do with bad comments? The average bad commenter is a fifteen-year-old boy with strongly held yet poorly developed opinions. If you downvote them without replying, then you wind up with an angry commenter who thinks their opinions are being shut down by th…

>Only works for top-level threads, though. A bad response to a highly rated OP will continue to hang out near the top of the page. Yeah, this is why I wish HN had collapsible comments (like Reddit, or even Slashdot). In that way, you could simply collapse irrelevant comments and ignore them. Having comments that can't be collapsed makes this much more difficult, as even a comment that's been downvoted into oblivion s…

If you're using Chrome, check out Hacker News Collapse: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bbkfcamiocfccgmcjn...

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#93

One thing that StackOverflow does really well is penalize you for downvoting: http://stackoverflow.com/privileges/vote-down Each downvote costs you karma. You have to have "X" karma before downvoting is enabled for your account. This incentivizes you to downvote cautiously as it costs you. That subpar comment you're clicking the down-arrow for must have really earned it.

[deleted]

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#95
post #88

I try not to pay attention to articles about Apple here, because it really does bring out some strong emotions. Logic goes out the window and everything reads like a love sonnet written by a retarded monkey. It's stressful and unfun. Reddit solved this problem, kind-of-sort-of, with subreddits. If all you care about is programming, visit the programming subreddit. Unfortunately, the comments on Reddit are extremely l…

I try not to pay attention to articles about Apple here, because it really does bring out some strong emotions. Logic goes out the window and everything reads like a love sonnet written by a retarded monkey. It's stressful and unfun. Love the dig, in response to a post lamenting emotional and inciting comments and topics. By the same token, I could say that I avoid the Google posts here for the same reason. Except I…

I take it personally. We are supposed to be a group of smarter-than-average people; we should be able to put tribalism aside and discuss actual details.

People use any Apple article to bash Android. People use any Android article to bash Apple. If we could stay on topic, we could avoid a lot of discussion. An article about the iPhone 5 is not the time to complain about the App Store submission policies. An article about the new Samsung tablet is not the time to complain about some API detail in Android's ListBox control.

The reason I stopped reading Slashdot many years ago is because every discussion seemed the same as the last one. In terms of Apple vs. Software Freedom or whatever we want to call it; there's nothing more to add. Either you like Apple's tight control or you don't. It's been discussed and it's boring and emotional now. So there's no point in bringing it up anymore, right?

Anyway, we need to be more aggressive about staying on topic. Digressions are fine if new territory is being covered. But if you have to post the same comment in five different articles, You're Doing It Wrong.

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#96
post #14

We are all going to nod our heads to this post, but as 'raganwald knows, nothing is going to change as a result. The inoculations against tribalism and tribal drama are cultural. Whatever vaccine HN had against this, it's worn off. My take is, flag these topics off the site. Cut them off like a gangrenous limb. We want to keep the leg, but even more, we want our heart to keep beating. But then, a vocal subset of HN u…

> My take is, flag these topics off the site. I'd like to do this. I tried doing it a while ago on the new tab. I spent 20 minutes each day flagging off topic posts. I didn't mind doing this as it was my way of making the community better. Sadly the flag link seems to have gone away:(

Mine disappeared too after I started using it extensively in the 'new' section for dupes & spammers, it came back briefly but it's been gone for weeks.

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#97
I hate it when mum and dad argue.

We all have our respective ecosystems wherein we do our business - iOS, Android, Windows, Linux, people who want you to know where they are right now, people who don't. So we suckle at the teat of our respective vendors, hoping they'll ruffle our hair and feature our app in their app store, or pat us on the back and whitelist us for their streaming API. Or buy us a pony, and buy us.

But right now, as at various points in the history of the computing industry, mum and dad have locked themselves in the car, turned the radio up, and started yelling at each other at the top of their voices. We might not understand why grown ups get angry about patents, or whatever else they argue about, but we love mum and dad, and we can't emotionally process what's happening between them. So we get angry too. And we lash out at our brothers and our sisters who grew up just trying to do the same things we did - be strong, happy, successful. Kids take after their parents, and right now the adults in the tech industry are fighting loudly and emotionally.

Let's hope for a reconciliation soon. At Macworld 1997, when Microsoft and Apple renewed their vows, and both emerged stronger than ever. It can happen again, we just need to try and not tear each other apart in the meantime.

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#98

I downvote any comment containing the word "fanboy", and I encourage my fellow readers to do the same.

I'm voting you up. "Fanboy" is the most destructive meme to rational discourse ever to emerge on the Internet. In a single word we reduce any debate to YouTube-style mudslinging. The concept of "fanboy" has some limited utility in that people do clearly blind themselves to flaws in products (or ideologies!) in order to avoid cognitive dissonance and protect their own identity, but any tiny value in expressing this co…

I suggest we use the word "lemming" instead. If someone is willing to walk off a cliff to obtain a new phone, it seems like the right word to use. Also, you can press that button at the bottom of the screen and they all blow up.

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reddit solved this problem, kind-of-sort-of, with subreddits. If all you care about is programming, visit the programming subreddit. Unfortunately, the comments on Reddit are extremely low-quality (even on /r/programming), so it's not actually worth visiting. But maybe this could save HN for a few more months. I think there's a very simple solution to this problem. First of all, I feel that Reddit has an excellent…

Metafilter charges you $5 to gain the ability to post. It's a little better than Reddit, but ultimately the discussion software is so bad it's hard to tell if this works or not. Threaded comments encourage back-and-forth and nitpicking over details. Sometimes these become flamewars when people start calling other people names. On the other side of the coin, there is flat commenting. That tends to become one-liners an…

> Metafilter charges you $5 to gain the ability to post. It's a little better than Reddit, but ultimately the discussion software is so bad it's hard to tell if this works or not.

I had forgotten about Metafilter. It's been around since 1999, which is probably the reason for the poor site design. But that also shows that it's possible to create a social news website that doesn't turn to trash within 5 years.

I'd say that it's worth giving a Reddit clone with a Metafilter-style pay-to-post system a shot. I'd do it myself, but I don't possess the requisite time or non-technical knowledge. Hopefully someone does, because I could see myself paying $5/month for a social news site that can indefinitely restrict itself to intelligent and on-topic commentary.

> I think my ultimate solution will be to return to blogging, and when I read an interesting article, write a detailed response. Then I will ignore the rest of the discussion.

I like this option as well, but primarily for a different reason. It's a well-known fact that our brains are plastic, and I've noticed that my shift from reading and writing long-form, thorougly reviewed pieces to short-form comments (like the one I'm writing right now) has severely affected my ability to hunker down and concentrate on detailed work.

Perhaps it's just that my expectations aren't that high, but I don't particularly share the OP's commiserations regarding HN. I still think it's a nice site that provides me with news and corresponding insightful commentary on the latest in the startup/tech scene. However, for the sake of my intellect, I probably need to start cutting back on the internet in general and return to reading more books.

Unfortunately, the internet is quite the addiction, so it's a bit of a struggle to take the first step ;/

Re: To my fellow Hacker News contributors

#100
edit Raganwald, your voice here is generally one of the better ones. I really don't get this hangup on DF posts. So I say the below with much respect.end edit

I mean, if the problem is thread noise, how does adding comments complaining about noise lessen the noise?

There's four ways to lessen noise and increase signal:

1) Not posting the junk links to predictable and uninsightful DF posts is the best.

2) Flagging till removal is a close second, and increases signal.

3) Writing a blog post full of the same kind of meta-comment noise that just shows up in the comments, then posting it here is a distant third.

4) Barring that complaining until it goes away works as a fourth.

I haven't flagged the last couple that made it to the front page because they were genuinely interesting or insightful. But I'm one of those that swears that I will flag any DF posts where Gruber weaves a fantastic tale of twisted circumstances where Apple should be the villain in that tale, but Gruber finds some ridiculous and transparent angle where he believes they come out smelling like roses.

Here's the relevant thread between us on this

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2890855

It's not the triteness of Gruber's Apple fanboyism, it's the ever present front pagedness of these predictable bizarre posts of his and the subsequent completely predictable pages upon pages of comments pointing out that his post is predictable that I think lessens the value of HN and do not further the conversation.

According to the guidelines:

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

What to Submit

On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

These types of posts by Gruber fail this test. They aren't interesting and they don't gratify anybody's intellectual curiosity.

"What does Gruber think about this potentially bad thing about Apple?" always has a knowable answer. There is nothing to be curious about.

Another guideline

"Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them."

These Gruber fanboy posts serve no purpose but to spark a possible flamewar. Like I said above, they are predictable and the response is predictable. There's no reasoning over his posts.

Apple could fuel their next generation of mobile computing devices with the still beating hearts of Tibetan orphans and Gruber would find a way to spin that into some bold and brilliant strategy where Apple is helping pull Tibet into first world-dom by eliminating their orphan problem.

"Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did."

This is the point where everybody here is basically going against this guideline. Flagging is the appropriate response and less complaining about yet another Gruber fanboy post is the best course.

In fairness saying you will flag them is a powerful signal to stop posting these things and stop wasting everybody's time and improve the signal-noise ratio.

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