Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know • Hacker News Board

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#711

Post by pieter_mj » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 6:57 AM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #345

Shank wrote: post #49

This is worth reading purely for the writing alone. Scott Alexander is a treasure: > As best I can tell, this is some kind of Egyptian trial. It might or might not be an RCT; it says stuff like “Patients were self-allocated to the treatment groups; the first 3 days of the week for the intervention arm while the other 3 days for symptomatic treatment”. Were they self-allocated in the sense that they got to choose? Doe…

Spoilers ahead, but I loved this pun: > The fraud-hunters have examined this paper closely and are unable to find any signs of fraud. I think this paper is legitimate and that its findings need to be seriously considered. ... And there’s always the chance it was a fluke, right? Can something have a p-value less than 0.001 and still be a fluke? ... > And it was! It was a fluke! A literal, physical, fluke! Edit: If you…

In the pilot of House, M.D., a patient is treated with Albendazole for a parasitic worm infestation. Not a fluke, but closely related :)

Albendazole is also considered for treating covid.

edit : hm, I think I remember Dr. House making the fluke joke ...

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#712

Post by kragen » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #70

fallingknife wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who even if they do make mistakes have your best interests at heart They, like every other person, have their own best interest at heart, which, if you're lucky, aligns with yours. "Just listen to the authorities" is probably the worst advice ever given.

In the case of a pandemic it is probably pretty good advice, unless you are of the opinion that your authorities are acting against your interest. The problem with this pandemic is that a lot of people in places of power have made mistakes, sometimes really bad ones (for instance, such as pursuing herd immunity) rather than to follow the WHO expert advice. This could easily be construed as authorities acting against…

I think that actually the countries that have successfully fought covid (PRC, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand as you mention, Thailand, Singapore, Australia, Iceland, etc.) have done so in significant part by violating the WHO expert advice to, for example, permit unrestricted travel. Your country and mine have about 100 times more deaths per capita than any country in that list, perhaps because they followed the WHO's advice.

Throughout the pandemic the experts, including the WHO, have been very frequently wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll be better off following advice from secret messages encoded for you in game show hosts, or, worse, Donald Trump's actual opinions. But blind faith in experts hardly seems to be justified.

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#713

Post by dnautics » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #689

dnautics wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are bootstrapping your understanding of society on that assumption itself and thus begging the question. Do you actually get out and talk to people? Most people are ok with nuance. Most things we consume as entertainment, from lowbrow housewives of Atlanta to highbrow pbs space time are full of dizzying nuance and unknowable truths (but not star trek. Star trek no longer has nuance).

We're fine with nuance in entertainment, in romance, in food, in professional team sports, in many things. I would dispute that the same level of comfort extends to "when elected (or not) leaders tell us what we should do."

> I would dispute

Why? Because it makes you feel good to think everyone else is dumber than you?

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#714

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #397

jesterson wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't soliciting for an explanation why people are trying to mock - too much studying of psychology provided enough information to answer this question. The answer, as it may come at a surprise for you, is not related to plausibility of statements. But that's totally different matter. As for your question, let me give you a very simple answer. As a layman in certain area, I see few facts - several families who I k…

Which government is that? The one who paid. I'm aware of frequent vaccine complications, but haven't heard of government doing any payouts.

[deleted]

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#715

Post by jesterson » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #710

jesterson wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore government. There is a special fund for people who got severe health complications due to vaccination and as far as I know, it’s being used quite often. Although, personally i can only speak about the case I have mentioned.

How's the current mentality towards vaccines in Singapore?

Short answer - it's complicated.

Long answer - quite a significant number of people are resistant to vaccines, particularly to mrna-based ones. Government offered voluntary vaccination and managed to vaccinate around 50%, after that different coercion and segregation measures (mandating without actually mandating) were used to raise the number to 94% (among eligible population).

Disappointment is starting to grow lately because despite total vaccination there is no removal of restrictions. While being reasonably open with data, government still plays with it - once vaccinated ppl become constituting majority of cases among fatalities they just stopped reporting how many vacc/unvaxx were among fatalities. This leaves people frustrated and disappointed in govt approach to tackle covid, particularly in this "vaccinate everyone" idea.

A lot of resistance spotted in people 60+, younger generation mostly just goes for shots.

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#716

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

truffdog wrote: post #684

jacquesm wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely: a case of wishful thinking. Need miracle cure, found miracle cure, look no further.

Ivermectin being cheap and widely available is really important here. Something like that- instead of a novel vaccine made with novel tech in very specific first world factories- is very attractive to cash strapped governments and public health systems.

Of course. But that doesn't mean it exists.

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Post by jacquesm » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

Arete314159 wrote: post #680

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is worth reading purely for the writing alone. Scott Alexander is a treasure This post is a breath of fresh air for the blog and feels refreshingly well-researched. Between that and the unquestionable popularity of COVID-related discussion, it’s no wonder this article is popular. Scott is undeniably a good blog writer with an entertaining writing style that resonates with his reader base. However, I’ve become…

I actually come from one of those so-called Great Families. Three generations back, there were 3 siblings who all had national or smaller success in creative, financial, and mathematical fields, including one who won a nobel prize. Many of their descendants also had successes, although of a more modest variety. However, in my generation, there were lots of money problems. And they did what money problems tend to do -…

This is super interesting, because it actually makes the case for 'old money' taking better care of the rest of the world, not for the benefit of the rest of the world but for their downstream.

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Post by jacquesm » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:28 AM UTC

tqi wrote: post #704

jacquesm wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it is patronizing. Knowing quite a few people, I'm not sure that isn't the right approach. People just want to get on with their lives, they don't want to know the degree of uncertainty behind decision x or y. And they'll believe anybody that tells them whatever they want to hear that allows them to get on with their lives. A guy like Fauci has very little choice: he can either lie, or he can cause a mass pani…

> he can either lie, or he can cause a mass panic or a run on critical resources Agree that Fauci was/is in a tough spot, but I think it's a mistake to conceptualize these decisions as a stage game as opposed to a repeated game. "Lying" or selectively emphasizing truths to achieve a specific outcome is borrowing against future trust in an effort to solve the present problem, and is suboptimal long term.

He may have been simply told what to say. The man strikes me as having integrity and trying to do the right thing even in impossible situations, such as being part of the Trump administrations' misdirection engine and refusing to buckle. That's the main reason the right wing of the United States hates his guts, he didn't sign the oath of loyalty. And was promptly replaced.

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#719

Post by fer » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:29 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #181

jacquesm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden, the country where the authorities apologized for messing up, that Sweden? People on average gained 10 kg? Really, I have no idea where you get this nonsense but clearly you are not interested in a factual debate but in one that gives you what you want: the ability to ignore this pandemic as though it doesn't exit. There are no ICU beds for the gerontocracy, there are simply ICU beds, and there is a limited nu…

Spain had 14,8% excess mortality than in normal years, Germany had 2,4% less dead, Sweden had 3% more dead. These numbers are adjusted for demographic changes. Sweden now looks pretty solid as well as Spain regarding new cases. Sure, if you just compare it to Norway and Finland, it is very true that Sweden has worse values, more than 3 times as many dead at minimum. But the answer if it was the correct or wrong choic…

Spain is a funny one.

The Community of Madrid is the succession tax haven of the country, so loads of people go live there their last years so their families aren't taxed on the inherited wealth.

Combine with the regional government short of condemning to death the elderly in nursing homes by refusing to hospitalize them[0], but I guess it's fine since they forgave themselves [1].

Add to the mix that the healthcare access hasn't kept up to handle what Madrid brought to itself, and then you obtain these numbers [2].

TL;DR: during the first wave, while most regions had peak excess deaths of 10-50%, Madrid had 200%, at the same time as being one of the most populous. In the rest of the periods, Madrid has been usually at the lead as well.

With Madrid removed the numbers are in line with Germany and Sweden.

[0] https://elpais.com/espana/madrid/2020-06-08/la-comunidad-de-...

[1] https://www.lahoradigital.com/noticia/32918/madrid/la-invest...

[2] https://www.isciii.es/QueHacemos/Servicios/VigilanciaSaludPu...

Re: Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#720

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 7:29 AM UTC

pieter_mj wrote: post #364

bayesian_horse wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't avoid infection and is a lot weaker in protection as even a very old double-vaccination, much less a boostered one.

True, but it should be seen as an additional layer to the Swiss cheese model of pandemic defense. The vaccine is the main component, by far, but its number of holes are increasing.

That's a very suspicious way of framing it. The "holes" seem to be mostly the people who don't want to get the vaccine at all. These are the ones responsible for most of the spread and for most of the consequences.