Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The benefits of not belonging

hardfork.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 146 posts

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#131

Post by abdabab »

WalterBright wrote: post #114
Aloha wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't do any of those things if they have to work two jobs to keep a roof over their head. There is a point where if you're of average intelligence and ability you can't try harder because all of your try is consumed by just getting by . The US does indeed have tons of opportunity, I'm a high school dropout, who is now an engineer. Thats an American success story. But I'm luckier than most because I got real luc…

Have you noticed the hundreds of thousands of totally destitute people flowing over the border, and becoming successful in America? According to your philosophy, that should be impossible.

I’m not sure at this point if you’re trolling or you actually have a very rosy view of immigrants being successful. Many of them have two jobs or working as delivering person and barely making minimum wage.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#132

Post by abdabab »

Zababa wrote: post #11
Stronico wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be nice in big cities too, maybe a little harder, but still pretty easy - all you have to do is remove social media and the clickbait/outrage web and life becomes pretty normal.

I'm not sure it does. I see weird people in the subway most days, I see all the time people that look like they spend all their day being outside - doing nothing, there are people making noise at 2 am on a week night, there are people going at crazy speeds on the street, at night or during the day. I feel like lots of people have some kind of weight on their shoulder, and/or one or multiple things bothering them a lo…

> I see weird people in the subway most days, I see all the time people that look like they spend all their day being outside - doing nothing, there are people making noise at 2 am on a week night, there are people going at crazy speeds on the street, at night or during the day.

Is it New York?

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#133

Post by Aloha »

abdabab wrote: post #130
WalterBright wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you must have talent Talent is way overrated. Talent is good for 1%, the rest is training to upgrade your skills. Of course, if you never try, failure is 100% guaranteed. BTW, I know some very successful people who aren't that smart. Being smart just means you learn faster. Not being smart doesn't mean you can't learn skills that are in demand.

I agree with Aloha. You still need a certain level of intelligence to work in tech. I have friends who struggle with concepts that are almost too easy for an average tech worker.

Thank you!

Agreed, Abstraction for example, is really really hard for most people, like harder than most technical folks realize.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#134

Post by Aloha »

abdabab wrote: post #129
Aloha wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't do any of those things if they have to work two jobs to keep a roof over their head. There is a point where if you're of average intelligence and ability you can't try harder because all of your try is consumed by just getting by . The US does indeed have tons of opportunity, I'm a high school dropout, who is now an engineer. Thats an American success story. But I'm luckier than most because I got real luc…

You should publish it as a blog. It’s not very readable from a phone.

https://alohawolf.substack.com/p/an-evergreen-america

As you requested.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#135

Post by WalterBright »

Aloha wrote: post #123
WalterBright wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you must have talent Talent is way overrated. Talent is good for 1%, the rest is training to upgrade your skills. Of course, if you never try, failure is 100% guaranteed. BTW, I know some very successful people who aren't that smart. Being smart just means you learn faster. Not being smart doesn't mean you can't learn skills that are in demand.

You must have natural gifts, talent, to sing, to act, to dance. No amount of technical training will turn a tone deaf person, or a person with a poor natural voice into a great singer.

> You must have natural gifts, talent, to sing, to act, to dance.

No, you don't. I was involved in competitive ballroom dancing when I was young. I have way below average talent at it. I only learned the stuff very slowly. But over time, with a lot of time spent practicing, I actually did get tolerably good at it.

Then there is singing. Neil Young, Stevie Nicks and Astrud Gilberto are talentless, but hugely successful, singers. I remember the scorching reviews Nicks got when she burst on the scene, with her "raspy", "unpleasant" voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uEy-n4IsU

P.S. I love all three of those artists' works.

P.P.S. Fred Astaire can't sing, either, but his songs are marvelous. There's that famous early review of him: "can't sing, can't act, balding, can dance a little".

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#136

Post by WalterBright »

Aloha wrote: post #122
WalterBright wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're also smarter than those being left behind How do you know this? Regardless, they apparently believe that there is opportunity in America, and you don't.

I interact with the folks 'being left behind' every day in my day job. It's direct observation. Do you have an observation of your own? How do you draw the conclusion that I believe there is a lack of opportunity? My parent comment says I believe there is tons of opportunity, if you have the right innate skills. If you'd read the document I linked, you'd see that my concerns have nothing to do with a lack of opportun…

> Do you have an observation of your own?

I know personally many immigrants to America arriving here with nothing, not even knowing English, and yet becoming successful businessmen, and many became independently wealthy.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#137

Post by WalterBright »

abdabab wrote: post #130
WalterBright wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you must have talent Talent is way overrated. Talent is good for 1%, the rest is training to upgrade your skills. Of course, if you never try, failure is 100% guaranteed. BTW, I know some very successful people who aren't that smart. Being smart just means you learn faster. Not being smart doesn't mean you can't learn skills that are in demand.

I agree with Aloha. You still need a certain level of intelligence to work in tech. I have friends who struggle with concepts that are almost too easy for an average tech worker.

A friend of mine taught remedial algebra at the University of Washington. She related to me that if she wrote on the board:

    x + 3 = 5
and asked what `x` was, the students would fall over in a quivering heap and say they had no idea.

If, instead, she wrote:

    _ + 3 = 5
and asked them to fill in the _, they all had no difficulty with it. The problem was not that they couldn't grasp the concept, it was that at some point they latched onto the notion that algebra was hard, and `x` meant algebra, and that was the end of that.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#138

Post by RobertRoberts »

KittenInABox wrote: post #28
RobertRoberts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come live out here for a while, talk with people, understand them. I've lived all over, including LA, east coast, south, Chicago, near the border of Mexico (I worked with illegals there even in sweat shops). Rural America is garden of peace and contentment compared to the urban areas. Your views are admitedly from a visitor... and there is no way you can compare them equally that way. Ignore Foxnews & CNN and get to…

I lived in Rural America as a clear immigrant of color (my parents not fluent in English) and it sucked ass.

I've lived in a large city and it was miserable to until I learned the ways of those people.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#139

Post by RobertRoberts »

fumar wrote: post #39
RobertRoberts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come live out here for a while, talk with people, understand them. I've lived all over, including LA, east coast, south, Chicago, near the border of Mexico (I worked with illegals there even in sweat shops). Rural America is garden of peace and contentment compared to the urban areas. Your views are admitedly from a visitor... and there is no way you can compare them equally that way. Ignore Foxnews & CNN and get to…

First, I am glad you found a place that suits you. I grew up in a suburb adjacent to a major city up until high school, then I moved to the rural midwest. As a minority, I found it near impossible to fit in. All of my beliefs, from ethnicity-based to city-based, were misaligned to the general consensus of the rural mindset. Sure, there was open space and generally it was green or pale yellow from the corns, but it wa…

Having different "likes" doesn't mean a place isn't peaceful or calm. My OC was that the larger cities are where the insanity has been happening for almost ever.

People can be unhappy anywhere, but also people can learn to get along anywhere too... unless there is a riot side your house, or a shooting next door. These are outside your personal influence.

Re: The benefits of not belonging

#140

Post by Aloha »

Kye wrote: post #128
Aloha wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I felt before I moved to a place with a lower cost of living, yes, I still need to drive everywhere, but at least I'm not miserable all the time. The pace of life slowed down once I got off of the coast.

Moving costs money that's hard to get when you already can't afford life, and further isolates you until you get integrated into the new community. It's a risky proposition. A lot of people who find themselves homeless got there by moving without being prepared for the other end.

Yeah, I prepared for moving for a bunch of years before I moved. A bunch of years, as miserable as I was in Seattle, moving away from my safety net was scary. I'm much happier in Dallas, thats as much weather and how different people are here.
Post reply on HN